My car was just hit by a contractors van on Venner Road (mine was parked and is now undriveable). This is the 4th such accident I have noticed on the road in the last 2 months. I am so angry at the way people drive so fast and unresponsibly on small residential roads in the area. This month it has been several cars damaged, but how long until it is a child who is hurt or killed. How can one go about trying to get traffic controls in place? How people get licenses and drive so poorly is just beyond me....
Now, if anyone call tell me where the closest police substation it I would appreciate it as I am supposed to report the incident within 24hrs, as they do not send police to make a report unless there are injuries. Thought I might actually see a policeman in the flesh.... oh well
Accidents on Venner Road
You should be able to report these incidents by phone.
Otherwise its Sydenham Police Station in Dartmouth Road (opp the Bricklayers and Sydenham School). Office hours only I think. Or Catford Police Station (all hours I think) which is in Bellingham. North of of the Southend Lane/Whitehorse Lane junction on the right.
Both I have found friendly/helpful. More than can be said for Bromley.
The basic problem is that these roads were not designed for parking on both sides. I think you would not be popular with your neighbours if Lewisham halved the parking with yellow lines down one side. I'm afraid us cyclists and pedestrians are sacrificial fodder in the desire of people to appropriate the public highway for their personal parking pleasure.
Stuart
Otherwise its Sydenham Police Station in Dartmouth Road (opp the Bricklayers and Sydenham School). Office hours only I think. Or Catford Police Station (all hours I think) which is in Bellingham. North of of the Southend Lane/Whitehorse Lane junction on the right.
Both I have found friendly/helpful. More than can be said for Bromley.
The basic problem is that these roads were not designed for parking on both sides. I think you would not be popular with your neighbours if Lewisham halved the parking with yellow lines down one side. I'm afraid us cyclists and pedestrians are sacrificial fodder in the desire of people to appropriate the public highway for their personal parking pleasure.
Stuart
accidents on Venner road
Scott, I emailed one of our MPs Marion Nisbett about this a few months ago, and asked if a 20mph speed limit could be imposed on residential roads in Sydenham because cars speed down my road too in the rush hour (Tannsfeld) which is very dangerous because there is the junction with Girton and a bend at the bottom, never mind our children!
I was forwarded a very standard letter from the traffic dept at Lewisham saying they could only put in speed humps where there was a history of accidents. (I wasn't actually asking for speed humps anyway as I'm not sure if I like them) However, his argument did not stack up anyway because most of the roads in Forest Hill, south of Standstead road, appear to have acquired them in the last year or so and I lived there for years and never witnessed or heard about any accidents there.
Maybe we should start a campaign to get these speed limits imposed. If others could email the councillors it could be a start. Other parts of the country have done it so why can't we?
I was forwarded a very standard letter from the traffic dept at Lewisham saying they could only put in speed humps where there was a history of accidents. (I wasn't actually asking for speed humps anyway as I'm not sure if I like them) However, his argument did not stack up anyway because most of the roads in Forest Hill, south of Standstead road, appear to have acquired them in the last year or so and I lived there for years and never witnessed or heard about any accidents there.
Maybe we should start a campaign to get these speed limits imposed. If others could email the councillors it could be a start. Other parts of the country have done it so why can't we?
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scott.l.hamilton
- Posts: 120
- Joined: 28 Jan 2008 11:51
- Location: SE26
Thank you the useful comments. As I have recently moved here, my car is registered in the Netherlands and I did report by phone, but the Dutch insurance required a police report. As suggested I did go to the Dartmoutth substation and they were very nice and helpful. While talking to the "clerk" she mentioned that there was a current "proposal being discussed to make all of lewisham a 20MPH borough. I have to say I agree that lowering the limit will do nothing, as the 30 is not currently enforced. Something should be done, but I don't feel that a lower speed limit or speed bumps is the answer. The answer lies in the individuals behaviour. feeling of responsibility while handling and multi-ton vehicle in residential areas and an overall change in behaviour of drivers. And I honestly have no idea how to improve the situation, other than to teach my children how to be more concerned of their responsibilities and obligastions to society rather than their right and privileges that the current generations are focused on..
Fortunately for me, the driver of the white van had insurance and I was home to go into the road and stop him from driving away without leaving details.
Fortunately for me, the driver of the white van had insurance and I was home to go into the road and stop him from driving away without leaving details.
Sounds like a "win/win" situationstuart wrote:And kill cyclists?
Stuart
On a serious note, I agree with User100. Some drivers just have no consideration for other people (or the speed limit), which is why speed bumps, cameras and other calming measures are needed.
Calming traffic measures will only be introduced in an area when people are injured/killed. Any calming measure have to have a statistical basis to prove they are needed (Councils have to justify the expenditure). Unfortunately, damage to vehicles, near misses and continual exceedences of the speed limit do not count in this assessment.
Alib
If only.
In the last 20 years we have introduced an enormous infrastructure of speed restraint. Has it been effective? Are less people killed on our roads today.
Well yes. But they are the people *inside* vehicles. Why - well the advances in vehicle design actually makes it rather difficult to get killed. People walk away from the most horrific crashes.
Cyclists, pedestrians - a different story. Also a complicated story. In general if you change a junction layout accidents will drop. It doesn't matter (within reason) what you do. Over time the effect may diminish or reverse. Why? Well an effect analagous to the Hawthorne effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect may be expected to be taking place.
Do the people producing the supporting statistics understand this and test their hypotheses with double blind data collection? Ask them!
Are you sure the prime problem in Venner Road is really speed? Are you sure it isn't the car parking which means drivers can't see crossing pedestrians and vv? And not having the room to manouver away from a problem? A tiny slip and metal engages.
I don't have the answers but I have to say that some who think they do have less evidence than they think they have.
Stuart
In the last 20 years we have introduced an enormous infrastructure of speed restraint. Has it been effective? Are less people killed on our roads today.
Well yes. But they are the people *inside* vehicles. Why - well the advances in vehicle design actually makes it rather difficult to get killed. People walk away from the most horrific crashes.
Cyclists, pedestrians - a different story. Also a complicated story. In general if you change a junction layout accidents will drop. It doesn't matter (within reason) what you do. Over time the effect may diminish or reverse. Why? Well an effect analagous to the Hawthorne effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect may be expected to be taking place.
Do the people producing the supporting statistics understand this and test their hypotheses with double blind data collection? Ask them!
Are you sure the prime problem in Venner Road is really speed? Are you sure it isn't the car parking which means drivers can't see crossing pedestrians and vv? And not having the room to manouver away from a problem? A tiny slip and metal engages.
I don't have the answers but I have to say that some who think they do have less evidence than they think they have.
Stuart
Venner Road
Mummycat, I meant to say councillors, it was a typo!
I have an idea, why don't we all start a sort of 'go slow' campaign, where we all ensure we do 20mph max on our roads (including the high street, where the traffic travels scarily fast when it gets the chance) then all those drivers who want to do 30+ will not be able to. I don't care if they tail gate - they do it to me already!!
If all the drivers on this forum do this it could be a start!!!
I have an idea, why don't we all start a sort of 'go slow' campaign, where we all ensure we do 20mph max on our roads (including the high street, where the traffic travels scarily fast when it gets the chance) then all those drivers who want to do 30+ will not be able to. I don't care if they tail gate - they do it to me already!!
If all the drivers on this forum do this it could be a start!!!
Poppy
I think your idea for a 20mph zone in local residential streets is an excellent idea. I agree that too many other areas of the borough appear to have got these zones - even where traffic accidents (and traffic) are relatively low.
Following a recent large meeeting of the Thorpes Residents, I understand that a 20mph zone is now under active consideration in the Thorpes. Thorpes residents aim to push for this to be part of the Living Streets improvements.
I wish you well in your campaign. Let us all know how you intend to carry this forward. Perhaps a meeting between Thorpes and Tannsfeld residents could map out a joint campaign on this issue?
Stuart - Below is a link to a report by Lewisham's Sustainable Development Select Committee which discusses, amongst other things, cycle-friendly policies they'd like to see implemented in the borough.
http://tinyurl.com/2q8e8y
I think your idea for a 20mph zone in local residential streets is an excellent idea. I agree that too many other areas of the borough appear to have got these zones - even where traffic accidents (and traffic) are relatively low.
Following a recent large meeeting of the Thorpes Residents, I understand that a 20mph zone is now under active consideration in the Thorpes. Thorpes residents aim to push for this to be part of the Living Streets improvements.
I wish you well in your campaign. Let us all know how you intend to carry this forward. Perhaps a meeting between Thorpes and Tannsfeld residents could map out a joint campaign on this issue?
Stuart - Below is a link to a report by Lewisham's Sustainable Development Select Committee which discusses, amongst other things, cycle-friendly policies they'd like to see implemented in the borough.
http://tinyurl.com/2q8e8y
Scott, what part of Venner Road did this incident happen?
I live in Venner Road and have in the past had my vehicle damaged by a dust cart.
I don't believe these types of accidents happen because of the amount cars parked, it's purely bad driving skills and lack of consideration by other road users.
I have had a number of near misses at the bend in Venner Road, but fortunately I also approach at about 5mph in preparation of a lunatic.
The 20mph Lewisham speed limit was announced on the new last week, but there was no mention as to when this was going to start. I doubt it will make a lot of difference, but we can all live in hope.
I live in Venner Road and have in the past had my vehicle damaged by a dust cart.
I don't believe these types of accidents happen because of the amount cars parked, it's purely bad driving skills and lack of consideration by other road users.
I have had a number of near misses at the bend in Venner Road, but fortunately I also approach at about 5mph in preparation of a lunatic.
The 20mph Lewisham speed limit was announced on the new last week, but there was no mention as to when this was going to start. I doubt it will make a lot of difference, but we can all live in hope.
Inciting a campaign to deliberately drive at or below 20 mph, without official sanction, is highly irresponsible and could lead to more accidents, not less.
It seems to me to be a form of passive aggression, which is bound to provoke other road users to acts of reckless overtaking, tailgating and road rage. And there will not be a damn thing you can do to stop them. Not big or clever.
Also, bear in mind that driving at 20mph is considered 'poor progression' and would rightly cause one to fail a driving test.
Strange that someone would advocate inconsiderate and sub-standard driving as a method for combatting, eh, inconsiderate and sub-standard driving.
Anyway, I doubt if anyone will *actually* organise such a campaign so I guess no need to worry about it really.
If, on the other hand it is an official change to the speed limits, then of course I would respect that.
It seems to me to be a form of passive aggression, which is bound to provoke other road users to acts of reckless overtaking, tailgating and road rage. And there will not be a damn thing you can do to stop them. Not big or clever.
Also, bear in mind that driving at 20mph is considered 'poor progression' and would rightly cause one to fail a driving test.
Strange that someone would advocate inconsiderate and sub-standard driving as a method for combatting, eh, inconsiderate and sub-standard driving.
Anyway, I doubt if anyone will *actually* organise such a campaign so I guess no need to worry about it really.
If, on the other hand it is an official change to the speed limits, then of course I would respect that.
Venner road
Calm down User100!!
You are supposed to drive at speeds suitable for actual conditions, not keep to the speed limit regardless. I was told this by an advanced driving instructor.
In most residential roads around Sydenham and on the high street, where people are crossing all over the place because of crap crossings, 20mph is often the 'suitable' speed to drive at, despite what some selfish drivers may think. So it is not irresponsible to drive at lower speeds. OK!
You are supposed to drive at speeds suitable for actual conditions, not keep to the speed limit regardless. I was told this by an advanced driving instructor.
In most residential roads around Sydenham and on the high street, where people are crossing all over the place because of crap crossings, 20mph is often the 'suitable' speed to drive at, despite what some selfish drivers may think. So it is not irresponsible to drive at lower speeds. OK!
Yes you should be driving at a safe speed. If that is 20 mph then its 20 mph. But if that is the speed it is because it is hazardous area. Do I really want to take my eyes off the road to check I'm not doing 21 or 22? That would be lethal for anybody stepping out unexpectedly.. And I would probably get the blame.
20mph may make bad drivers safer (if they follow the limit) but it can also make good drivers bad by diverting their attention.
There is also the issue of knowing the speed limit. The old law was that it is 30mph in a built up area unless there was repeater signs to say otherwise. For good reason! You can be in a 20mph area without knowing it. They are signed only at the periphery (usually a busy junction with an unclear view of the sign). Of course if you pick up a vehicle within a zone you won't even have that.
IMHO 20 mph zones may be a good idea in theory, I do worry about the practice.
Stuart
20mph may make bad drivers safer (if they follow the limit) but it can also make good drivers bad by diverting their attention.
There is also the issue of knowing the speed limit. The old law was that it is 30mph in a built up area unless there was repeater signs to say otherwise. For good reason! You can be in a 20mph area without knowing it. They are signed only at the periphery (usually a busy junction with an unclear view of the sign). Of course if you pick up a vehicle within a zone you won't even have that.
IMHO 20 mph zones may be a good idea in theory, I do worry about the practice.
Stuart
Last edited by stuart on 28 Feb 2008 15:22, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Venner road
[edited by me to remove some comments that were a bit sarcastic]
But you were advocating unilaterally imposing a 20mph go-slow on the high street. IMO that is not appropriate behaviour. But if you are now changing your mind to say that we should 'often' only drive at 20moh on the high street, then that's ok. I agree.
I agree we should all drive at a suitable speed.
Not a blanket 30mph. Not an illegal speed above 30mph. And not a blanket 20mph max either, certainly not one imposed by people without authority to do so.
Use your judgement and mind your own driving first and foremost, allow others to use their judgement and I strongly advise you not to try to impose a 20mph speed on those behind you.
If you know anyone who has ever been the victim of genuine road rage, I advise you to talk to them first before you bring that down on your head and on your passengers.
OK.poppy wrote: In most residential roads around Sydenham and on the high street, where people are crossing all over the place because of crap crossings, 20mph is often the 'suitable' speed to drive at, despite what some selfish drivers may think. So it is not irresponsible to drive at lower speeds. OK!
But you were advocating unilaterally imposing a 20mph go-slow on the high street. IMO that is not appropriate behaviour. But if you are now changing your mind to say that we should 'often' only drive at 20moh on the high street, then that's ok. I agree.
I agree we should all drive at a suitable speed.
Not a blanket 30mph. Not an illegal speed above 30mph. And not a blanket 20mph max either, certainly not one imposed by people without authority to do so.
Use your judgement and mind your own driving first and foremost, allow others to use their judgement and I strongly advise you not to try to impose a 20mph speed on those behind you.
If you know anyone who has ever been the victim of genuine road rage, I advise you to talk to them first before you bring that down on your head and on your passengers.