Liveable Streets

[hairybuddha]

http://www.fastcodesign.com/3016252/new ... t+Company)

Very interesting article about how Mayor Bloomberg and Janette Sadiq-Khan are slowly transforming New York. Everyone, including local businesses, are reaping the benefits. London is being left behind.

[Rachael]

We were in NYC in the Spring and noticed the new cycle lanes - the parked car are moved out into a parking lane, leaving a kerb-side lane free for cyclists. This was on the eastern side avenues - First and Second (one goes up town, the other down). This was particularly needed on the East side of the island, as there is already cycling provision down the West side with the West Side Highway. So on the East side you can now cycle between the kerb and the parked cars, which is obviously a lot safer than being squeezed between parked cars and moving traffic. These changes in NYC are about thinking differently, which is what is needed.

[leenewham]

It's a huge difference in attitude between the two cities. That document was refreshing and full of common sense using easy to follow language and logical argument.

I wonder if they did lots of public consultation and if it took years before it actually happened? They seem to have through things through holistically, I know they are good at engaging local groups and supporting them and they have lots of little communities that all seem to be love their local area who are intent on making things better. The hi-line park was a triumph. It looks as if they support good ideas rather than consulting the enthuiasm out of them before everything becomes a series of watered down proposals that don't really solve any of the initial problems other than a quick and easy 'see it everywhere' makover.

NY has the feeling of being loved.

What is going on down by the library with the literary piazza feels more along the lines of how NY think.

[hairybuddha]

Lee - I think it's a combination of what you suggest i.e consultation, thinking holistically etc but also, as the article says, it sometimes just requires those in charge to take a risk, force something through and end up with "arrows in your back".

There is a street in Hackney which is a good example of this. It was closed to all through motor traffic despite howls of protest from local businesses, cabbies etc It's now one of the most popular public spaces and cycling routes in the Borough and everyone is wondering what the fuss was about. All for the price of a couple of bollards.

[hairybuddha]

We were in NYC in the Spring and noticed the new cycle lanes - the parked car are moved out into a parking lane, leaving a kerb-side lane free for cyclists.

They have done this in Royal College Street in Camden. It's a really good solution as one of the most common objections against the introduction of proper cycle lanes is the loss of resident parking. Not an issue when you do it like this.

[leenewham]

What street is this HB?

[hairybuddha]

Mare Street and Goldsmiths Row

http://lcc.org.uk/articles/hackney-move ... n-day-four

[Tim Lund]

HB - do you know about this organisation - Living Streets - formerly known as the Pedestrians' Association, of which I am a member, and which was involved in the initial consultation for the Sydenham Road improvements? I've occasionally been to meetings, and come away with the rather dispiriting feeling that they see cyclists as part of the problem.

[hairybuddha]

Yes, certainly aware of them. They do some excellent work, Sydenham High St notwithstanding

Cuts to a wider issue I feel - Cycling has a major image and political problem. If people like the LCC can work more effectively with people like Living Streets and Roadpeace then I think they would have a better chance of achieving their aims.

[Tim Lund]

NY has the feeling of being loved.

I think London is loved too - certainly by me, but also by many who I'd say fail to act in its best interests; it's not just a matter of being loved, but how well loved.

A significant change in New York came with the publication of Jane Jacob's 'The Death and Life of Great American Cities", which eventually turned opinion and policy against driving roads through flourishing local neighbourhoods of traditional brownstones. Her book is also acknowledged on Wikipedia as key in the development of a post-modern urbanism. But there is also a sustained critique of her thinking in the book I linked to on the 'Cultivating my garden' thread, for blocking the evolution of liveable cities with higher densities than achieved in those traditional brownstones, and eventually pricing people out of the city she loved.

The shame is that modernism, guided by quantitative projections of what people will need, is not reconciled with the more immediate human needs for liveability and diversity.

[hairybuddha]

Lots to tackle there - Lucky I have a few weeks off work coming up

This is another interesting article on New York's development and the implications of the Mayoral race: http://t.co/YZslGLTfOq

[mosy]

My view is that it's different on roads where there's enough room for cycle lanes and bus lanes - nothing new there.

One thought about Sydenham Road long term parking would be to build a small (say 3-storey * ) multi storey car park at the back end of the Girton Road car park. Such car parks (from my experience) tend to be underutilised in an economy downturn, but seriously full when the economy picks up. So building one now would be a good long term plan for long-stay parking for peeps catching trains into town for the day, and maybe even shopping or eating along Sydenham Road on their way home.

* Height preferably to suit surroundings; compare the height of the blocks of flats at the Greyhound site which are way beyond proportional height to surroundings (and light/sunlight deprivation they cause), so no more of those please.

If TFL is determined to keep vehicles speeding (or at least travelling with ease) through Sydenham (I guess it kinda has to be so given it's a through route), then why not encourage long-stay vehicles to park (and not outside residential homes).

Have I thought this through? Don't mind criticism if I'm talking through my hat.

[hairybuddha]

My view is that it's different on roads where there's enough room for cycle lanes and bus lanes - nothing new there.

Hi mosy - There are very few roads in London that don't fulfil that criteria. And where there is limited space, why should we continue to prioritise the private motor vehicle as we do now? Private motor vehicle use in London has been declining steadily for a number of years now. At peak times, people walking and cycling make up the majority of people moving around. Why is this not reflected in the allocation of space at present?

One thought about Sydenham Road long term parking would be to build a small (say 3-storey * ) multi storey car park at the back end of the Girton Road car park.

Total madness in my view for all the reasons above but you'll probably find support for it on here.

If TFL is determined to keep vehicles speeding (or at least travelling with ease) through Sydenham (I guess it kinda has to be so given it's a through route)

These are just political decisions. Sydenham does not need to be a through route for what feels like most of SE London. Motor vehicles do not need to be allowed speedy or easy passage through the town. We have decided that it should be like this. We can decide to change it, just like they have in bits of New York.

Thanks for commenting.

[hairybuddha]

UK town with highest cycling rates has lowest shop vacancy rates. Coincidence?

http://t.co/8qasjck6se

[leenewham]

Kingston, with lots of car parks had 99% occupancy.

There are lots of factors, from BID groups, to the types of shops, to it being a town full of rich students. Just because 'doing X works here' doesn't means 'doing X will work everywhere'.

I'm all for encouraging cycling, but it's not the singular solution for high streets.

[hairybuddha]

'm all for encouraging cycling, but it's not the singular solution for high streets.

Just because 'doing X works here' doesn't means 'doing X will work everywhere'.

Completely agree - I think I posted about Kingston somewhere else on here actually - It is a very odd place and probably stands as an outlier at both ends of this debate. If I can figure out the search function I'll try and find that post

[hairybuddha]

I was in Kingston at lunchtime on Monday (I arrived by car, btw) and the car parks were crammed. But I think this is more a function of our choices when it comes to designing our high streets and our road systems. The vast majority of people there that day will have travelled distances that are easily cycleable and from places that have good public transport links. The car parks are full because the (subjectively) safest and most convenient way of getting to Kingston is to take the car. Why is that? Because they have built huge car parks and a multi-lane one way system to get you in and out quickly and the surrounding road environment is hostile to cycling and walking. It's a bit like the argument around creating road capacity by building more roads and widening existing roads. All that does is provide short term relief, increases the incentive for people to use their cars, eventually all that new capacity is fully used up and we're back to square one. Another thing to note about Kingston is that, because of the large amount of traffic moving through, it is a pretty unpleasant place to walk around.

Here it is! That was easier than I thought