A SOLUTION?

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leenewham
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A SOLUTION?

Post by leenewham »

Travel around London is slow. With the olympics it will probably mean even more closures to London Bridge due to overcrowing. Travel in London is especially expensive and during peak times is painful. Not long ago it took me almost 3.5 hours to get back to Sydenham from Hayes in NW London due to traffic.

Instead of building more train lines and struggling to overcome these problems, perhaps we need a new idea.

What if:
We encouraged more micro and small businesses?

Revitalised high streets as community and work hubs? Instead of turning empty shops into flats why not offices?

We got more people working from home? Get higher speed internet.

We change the rating system, give interest free loans and grants from a government central bank or fun (that they were supposed to be setting up) and offer tax breaks to make all this happen?

Small businesses are the ones that are supposed to be pulling us out of the recession but I'm seeing little help from government to make this happen.

Tesco, M&S, Matalan, Innocent, Jo Malone, Dyson, the Body Shop, Apple, Ebay, even Facebook all started as small businesses with humble beginnings.

Creative communities are very good at making this happen, but it needs cheap rents. When the rents go up the creative start ups try to find the next cheap area. That's how Shoredich and Camden improved. Similar businesses attract similar businesses. Unfortunately it works for pound shops, supermarkets and takeaways too.

It's like agriculture. Prepare the soil and you will be able to plant particular crops, if the soil is clay or acidic some crops wont grow.

How can we 'prepare the soil' in Sydenham?

Ideas on a post please ;-)
Tim Lund
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008 18:10
Location: Silverdale

Re: A SOLUTION?

Post by Tim Lund »

Image

From Lewisham's Local Development Framework, Core Strategy

We are not in a 'regeneration and growth area', and we don't get a 'Town Centre Area Action Plan'. As simply a district hub, it will be difficult for Lewisham officers to justify spending their time developing policies for us, especially given the cuts.

It would be nice if the various ideas - such as yours and mine - which pop up on this Forum could be knocked into a coherent plan for Sydenham - probably together with Forest Hill and parts of Perry Vale if not all, and Bellingham ward as far as Bell Green. It would be the sort of thing the framers of the Localism Act had in mind for Neighbourhood Forums, but I am fairly sure that LB Lewisham would want any such Forum to develop out of the Local Assemblies into which they have invested so many resources.

Oh, let's not go on about this, even though it is relevant, and get depressed ... let's just keep coming up with these ideas. I'm sure via this Forum potential inward investors are already getting the feeling, far more than from the Assemblies, this is a fairly lively place. I wish I had time to work out more ideas on how we leverage off all the local data that is out there ... on Google maps, LB Lewisham web sites.
SAY not the struggle naught availeth,
The labor and the wounds are vain,
The enemy faints not, nor faileth,
And as things have been they remain.

If hopes were dupes, fears may be liars;
It may be, in yon smoke concealed,
Your comrades chase e'en now the fliers,
And, but for you, possess the field.

For while the tired waves, vainly breaking,
Seem here, no painful inch to gain,
Far back, through creeks and inlets making,
Comes silent, flooding in, the main.

And not by eastern windows only,
When daylight comes, comes in the light,
In front, the sun climbs slow, how slowly,
But westward, look, the land is bright.
leenewham
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Re: A SOLUTION?

Post by leenewham »

It's not up to the council unless our councilors fight for Sydenham and get us on the councils radar it wont happen. And to be honest even the belligerent cllr wont achieve that on their own.

Each local authority can't regenerate every area. They have to choose.

To make it happen you need a strong town centre traders groups involving many of the local shops. You need some buy in from local cllrs, but without the traders groups nothing will happen.

It needs to be determined. Look at the changes that have happened to our local parks. Mayow Park in particular changed because of the amazing work by a small group of people that used and loved it. It now has a green flag. Home Park too has greatly improved due to the same efforts by a small group headed by Anthony.

It works. I've seen in make huge differences in other ares of london where they have been held back and often hindered by their councils because politics always gets in the way of the good work they do.

We have a town centre steering group but not enough businesses are part of it. Without a strong traders group any ideas simply wont happen.
Tim Lund
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Location: Silverdale

Re: A SOLUTION?

Post by Tim Lund »

you need a strong town centre traders group ... It needs to be determined


Determined to do what? It's hardly a criticism of traders to say that their main focus will be on the immediate profitability of their own businesses, and there is only so much time and effort any one will be prepared to invest in increasing collective goods such as increased footfall. A group of existing traders is also unlikely to hold together long if it tries to encourage investment into Sydenham Road; maybe as long as there are vacant properties, and any business coming in is not going to compete with any of the existing business.

Effective collective action for Sydenham Road has to depend on people who have an interest in making it happen, and the capacity. You mention local parks a success story which Sydenham Road could emulate. The difference is that as well as the small groups of dedicated local people, there is also a well run local parks department, with professional staff who can help find funding for the investment which has gone into the parks. Facilities such as those recently installed in Mayow Park are paid for by the Council, I believe - certainly not by the Friends of Mayow Park; such community groups just do not have the resources. Also, there aren't some 300+ separate businesses concerned with parks whose main concern will nonetheless be their own profitability, and not so much attracting investment which will ultimately push up rents.

An effective plan for Sydenham Road has to match aims - what any group might be determined to do - with people involved in such a group with the interest and capacity to achieve such aims. I'd not rule out Council involvement in principle, because good, effective local government officers, and Councillors, could just as much take pride in bringing investment into Sydenham Road as their colleagues in the parks department do on their side. Except that all our Town Centre Managers got cut last year.

There are two other types of player who I have imagined with an effective long run interest in promoting Sydenham Road and attracting investment. One is commercial landlords; a livelier High Street will mean higher rents and property valuations. Enlightened commercial landlords - they do exist - will also see the advantage of offering low rents for creative start up businesses, which work for them as a permanent advertisement "come invest here, this is a fun and interesting place to be", until such time as they can find tenants to pay serious money. So my starting point would be an investors group, rather than a traders' group - although enlightened investors only, please. Such a group would still have some internal conflicts of interest, but not as many as with a traders' group, I think. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of such initiatives working elsewhere? Even if not supported financially by a Council, they would still have to work closely with it.

The other sort of player who might make things happen would be an agent of some kind, rather than an investor, So probably an estate agent specialising in commercial rental, if such a specialisation exists - I am just thinking through the economic logic. In any case, such an agent would start from getting to know the actual and potential commercial landlords. Such an agent might be able to monetise the local knowledge acquired - and not just commercial, but also community stuff as appearing on the Forum - by being paid as a local consultant. Has anyone ever heard of such?

Whatever the nature of such a role, there would also have to be a plan - i.e. my original question of what it was determined to do - and an understanding of how this worked for Sydenham traders and the wider community. The plan would have to go far beyond what is understood by planning in documents such as the Lewisham LDF referred to above, although it would have to embrace it, so anyone or any group fulfilling such a role would have to be able to work effectively with Lewisham planners, and any Localism Act Neighbourhood Forum. But they would also need to work on a marketing strategy for the area, which is where many of Lee's ideas would come in, and building up / identifying databases, which is where my thoughts typically turn.

Given what I have written in other threads on this Forum about Lewisham Council, I'm not expecting them to approach me to ask me to work with them on this, although I would welcome the chance to make some contribution. If others better able to get along with the current Lewisham Council could manage something instead, then that would be great. I have my doubts, however, about Lewisham's capacity to change; they have too much baggage of failed initiatives from the last ten years, which are never properly assessed, so never given a decent burial.

(Edited to remove photo previously posted without permission, for which I apologise)
Last edited by Tim Lund on 15 Feb 2012 17:00, edited 2 times in total.
Susan Wise
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Joined: 9 Feb 2012 14:16
Location: Perry Vale

Re: A SOLUTION?

Post by Susan Wise »

I am posting to clear up a few issues in the last post. Firstly the photo of myself and the Chair of FOMP was used unasked and without my permission, despite the written thanks that suggest otherwise. Secondly, although it is correct to say that community groups such as FOMP do not have the resources to fund what the community wants, the excellent play equipment provided for older children in Mayow Park, as displayed in the photo, would not have been possible without the time and energy expended by the chair in bring the project to fruition. The funding did come from Lewisham Council via PlayBuilder funding from the previous government, but the work involved in project consultatation and design was led by the Chair of FOMP.
Rachael
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Re: A SOLUTION?

Post by Rachael »

Well, Tim, you've been agitating for quite a while to get more of our local councillors to post on this forum. Seems you got your wish, twice over.
Tim Lund
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Location: Silverdale

Re: A SOLUTION?

Post by Tim Lund »

I'm wishing them many happy returns :D

Seriously, I very much hope they do keep posting. I hold out a standing invitation to meet up with me and share my thoughts on how they can make this Forum work for them - and there will be any number of people who could do the same. They have far more to gain from using it than ignoring it.
dickp
Posts: 567
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Location: Cardiff

Re: A SOLUTION?

Post by dickp »

Is it just me, or does Cllr Susan Wise come across as a little...prickly... in her post?

Cllr Best's activity on here makes me more inclined to vote for her, even though I'm not a natural labout voter.

And Cllr Wise? Well, she certainly has made a first impression on me...

Anyhoo...returning to Tim's origional post..I'm off to the London Franchise fair next weekend, going "undercover" to learn about getting more businesses to the area. And I have a LOT of spare free tickets, if anyone wants to come along.
leenewham
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Re: A SOLUTION?

Post by leenewham »

What Cllr Wise has wisely said is exactly what I was talking about. Interested parties getting together to solve problems and put the case to the council or getting council support to fund the solutions. FOMP have done great work and all concerned should be proud of the fact as should all the Friends of groups (Anthony!).

Mayow park is a great example.

As Tim points out, businesses are concerned with their own profitability. That's perfectly understandable. But only by the businesses working together can they hope to make Sydenham compete with other areas. Which is why we need a strong traders group, to work with the council, identity problems and work up solutions.

Without it Sydenham will fall behind.

For example;
West Norwood have a good traders association. They have meetings every month. They invite people to present to the businesses to talk about window merchandising, tax, customer service, admin etc. And yes, shopfronts (I gave a presentation to them which is how I know about it, it was VERY well attended).

They have a good relationship with the councillors and officers to help them with the support and funding they need. That group is determined to improve West Norwood.

Without that traders group they wouldn't be on the councils radar. Which Sydenham currently isn't.

Councils can help bring a traders group together. It's happened in other areas, but it needs a strong willed leader with the time to make it work.
Susan Wise
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Joined: 9 Feb 2012 14:16
Location: Perry Vale

Re: A SOLUTION?

Post by Susan Wise »

Dear dickp
Thank you for your comment re my post. I think you misunderstood my concern about Tim using my photo without asking or gaining my permission as being "prickly". I can assure you that is not the case, my unease is that in using the photo, it in some way implies I am in agreement with his views on this issue. I am very pleased that you will consider voting for Cllr Best in Sydenham as she does an excellent job. My work is in my Perry Vale ward, and if you have time log on to loveperryvale.org and review the work being done there.
Tim Lund
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Location: Silverdale

Re: A SOLUTION?

Post by Tim Lund »

Susan,

I was simply arguing that the achievements of properly paid public servants should be recognised as well as unpaid members of the community such as Alona, and potentiallly Lee, should Lewisham involve him in its thinking on the future of Sydenham Road

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image

(Edited to remove suggestion that Cllr Wise did not also recognise these achievements)
Last edited by Tim Lund on 11 Feb 2012 11:00, edited 1 time in total.
jonathan_har
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Location: sydenham

Re: A SOLUTION?

Post by jonathan_har »

One feature of the High Street is the large number of estate agents on it. Surely this is one group of traders who definitely have an interest in its quality? After all, the local High Street is an important amenity consideration when choosing somewhere to live and an attractive one increases surrounding house prices...
leenewham
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Re: A SOLUTION?

Post by leenewham »

You'd have thought so wouldn't you Jonathan!

Unfortunately they seem intent on ignoring our local cllrs, sticking dozens of advertising boards all over the place, they never remove the wooden bits they attached the boards (that's if they bother to remove the sign) and many, if not most of them are put up after the flats have been let!

My last count had almost 50 in Sydenham Road.

At least Property World invest in the Arts Festival (although they are by far the worst at sticking up their a boards). The empty shops could easily be cleaned up to make them more attractive to investors but despite me writing to all the estate agents selling them, no-one wanted to know.

So aside from Property World and Mann who have also been supportive locally they don't seem interested (It would be good to hear a response from Estate agents here).
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