New cafe

[clembot]

I'm all for new business' making a mark, but what's with the new cafe top end of the high street? Hardly progress, who signs the plans off?

[mosy]

By progress, do you mean gentrification? If so, a little confusing as it was a cafe (Sema's) thus there's no change of use so planning department would not be involved. (unless there'll be structural changes).

I assume you mean the new Dilz Café near Silverdale on Sydenham Road which is being fitted out and due to open soon. If not that one, I don't know which one you're referring to.

[clembot]

That's the one. Let's be bold and say gentrification is a good thing as long as it's independent and offers something relevant and fresh. That 'Dulwich creep' isn't rearing its horns over the brow of the hill is it?

[The Clown]

Tacky signage. I agree that the Town Centre Manager should be offering better advice.
Bad signage stops customers from entering. It would me. I'd chose Cherry & Ice or On the Hoof.
That's the reality and if I were a business owner, I would want to know that.

[sugahill cafe]

Tacky signage. I agree that the Town Centre Manager should be offering better advice.
Bad signage stops customers from entering. It would me. I'd chose Cherry & Ice or On the Hoof.
That's the reality and if I were a business owner, I would want to know that.

Who is the Town Centre Manager?

[gillyjp]

[quote="clembot"]I'm all for new business' making a mark, but what's with the new cafe top end of the high street? Hardly progress, who signs the plans off?[/quo

Previously Sema's, it's always been a café and they had their regulars and I don't see any problem with this. Rather a clean and well run café than another betting shop, nail bar or charity shop. I think we have enough of all of those in Sydenham thank you very much. Or worse still, the place lying empty for months and looking tatty - we've got enough of those too.

I wish them well in their business and hope it is as successful.

[Nigel]

I certainly wish them well - I see them as s replacement for Sema's cafe , who were very good and I will miss them .
I agree the signage is awful and a lost opportunity to improve the high street appearance - shop by shop . I'd be interested to know if there is any control of shop fronts - at all - I inderstand that the sticky back plastic of the polish food shop near budgets is against rules but nothing seems to have been done .
We need to have a bit more ambition - and that doesn't mean I don't welcome a new cafe to Sydenham and will be going for an egg chips and beans very soon
A very good evening
Nigel

[mosy]

I'm getting a bit lost here. The new Dilz Café (opening soon) has quite a good hanging sign. Shops often use a stick-on fascia sign until the proper one arrives so I refuse to be quick to come to judgement before the shop has even opened at which time I or someone else can politely ask about it. Also, as the shop is being completely re-fitted, I'd imagine it'll be pretty smart since they could just have taken it over as was.

I also don't understand why people would not be happy with a decent café selling decent food at an affordable price for everyday repeat customers (which is how businesses survive)? There are already several "posh" (relatively expensive) coffee/cake/food shops but I'd be surprised if many have regular every day customers for their food - please correct me if mistaken.

Anyway, I wish the new Dilz café well. I was happy to buy sandwiches and takeaway cartons from Semas and had occasional eat-ins. It had a 5* Scores on the Doors rating by the way, which some "posh" ones don't, and I imagine Dilz will too have.

[The Clown]

Town Centre Manager used to be Julie Sutch but perhaps the post was removed during a round of restructuring.

http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/getinvolved/ ... dAudit.pdf

[leenewham]

There is no current Town Centre Manager and hasn't been for years. Julie Sutch was the last one appointed by the council.

The high street is a conservation area, so I presume it includes the new cafe.

If so, they should have applied for permission for their sign.

It's lit which requires advertising consent (even if it's not in a conservation area).

Thier sign probably wouldn't have been granted permission as it's over size and doesn't really fit in with the type of shop. If they have a new shop front, it definitely needs planning and they may be asked to change it if it doesn't fit in with the planning guidance.

If it wasn't a conservation area, shops have the right to change their sign under permitted development as long as the largest lettering isn't over 75 cm tall.

The issue is that planning for shop fronts etc isn't enforced, it's slow, expensive, complicated and badly run. it's not communicated either. The vast majority of shops don't bother with it except high street chains who generally do comply with planning and to be honest, I don't blame them.

Councils have all had their funding cut and have understaffed departments, so I don't blame them either. But out planning system for high streets is broken. It simply doesn't work in the majority of areas.

This problem isn't being addressed. And it could be.

Lastly, Sydenham isn't 'gentrifying'. It's the most lazily overused term connected to high streets. Most of the time it's used to say 'the high street looks less shabby than it did'. Sydenham hasn't really changed that much in the last 8 years I've lived here bar a few independent businesses that have offered something different on the high street or local park. The biggest difference is that there are finally a few child friendly places in the high street.

We rarely go to Sydenham High Street, the main reason is that when we go out, we want a real treat when we spend out money, especially when times are tough. It's nice trying different places, or getting something incredible like the burgers in The Crystal Palace Market. There are some great businesses in Sydenham (Beer Rebellion, OTH, Brown & Green etc) but they are dotted around the high street, not clustered, which means their impact is minimal.

I wish the new cafe well, and I like a good cafe, like the excellent Electric Cafe in West Norwood run by the charming Stavros (as his family have for years). It's cheap and cheerful with really good breakfasts. From places like these, it's nice to know the owner and for it to feel friendly and the food lovingly made by the owner. Large, backlit, corporate signage and generic shop fronts simply don't communicate that or lift it above anything else in surrounding areas. It's like they are ashamed to say 'come in here and get something special'. Those huge signs are expensive too. signwriting isn't expensive.

With good advice, planning, perhaps a local town team of experts at hand to help shops, or even local town teams having control of local planning to make it relevant to the local area, we could have nice, more distinctive high streets (and possibly save local businesses money too).

[Pally]

lee newham

This problem isn't being addressed. And it could be.

Lastly, Sydenham isn't 'gentrifying'. It's the most lazily overused term connected to high streets. Most of the time it's used to say 'the high street looks less shabby than it did'. Sydenham hasn't really changed that much in the last 8 years I've lived here bar a few independent businesses that have offered something different on the high street or local park. The biggest difference is that there are finally a few child friendly places in the high street.

We rarely go to Sydenham High Street, the main reason is that when we go out, we want a real treat when we spend out money, especially when times are tough. It's nice trying different places, or getting something incredible like the burgers in The Crystal Palace Market. There are some great businesses in Sydenham (Beer Rebellion, OTH, Brown & Green etc) but they are dotted around the high street, not clustered, which means their impact is minimal.

I wish the new cafe well, and I like a good cafe, like the excellent Electric Cafe in West Norwood run by the charming Stavros (as his family have for years). It's cheap and cheerful with really good breakfasts. From places like these, it's nice to know the owner and for it to feel friendly and the food lovingly made by the owner. Large, backlit, corporate signage and generic shop fronts simply don't communicate that or lift it above anything else in surrounding areas. It's like they are ashamed to say 'come in here and get something special'. Those huge signs are expensive too. signwriting isn't expensive.

With good advice, planning, perhaps a local town team of experts at hand to help shops, or even local town teams having control of local planning to make it relevant to the local area, we could have nice, more distinctive high streets (and possibly save local businesses money too).

I agree Lee that the Sydenham High hasn't changed that much despite many opportunities. I actually don't feel it is worth getting involved because something seems to block things progressing ...the difference to Forest Hill is marked!

[mosy]

I agree Lee that the Sydenham High hasn't changed that much despite many opportunities. I actually don't feel it is worth getting involved because something seems to block things progressing ...the difference to Forest Hill is marked!

I expressed surprise (in the Greyhound thread) that the Orb next to Syd railway bridge hadn't been snapped up. I wondered if it was lack of parking, although East Dulwich's main restaurant/bistro stretch has none. I'm mystified given brilliant transport links if a "go to".

Back on Dilz Café, the sign doesn't look that bad to me - I quite like the stylised caligraphy and it sets it apart from the rather drab laundrette next door. I accept that some on here think I have absolutely no taste at all (If the fascia doesn't meet planning rules, that's a different issue.)

If it were an evening wine bar or bistro, just "Dilz" might have been more intriguing, but it isn't and as it's on a car through route it's better it says what it is. I don't get the Cherry & Ice fascia. I thought for ages that someone had just stood on a ladder with a piece of wet chalk as that's what it looks like to me.)

*Goes off to find bullet proof vest*

[The Clown]

I have to say that it does look much better with the feature lighting above the service area.

It also looks better from a distance (from Venner) when you can see the whole building in context, rather than when you are actually at street level on the high street proper.

I love Turkish food, so am hopeful it will be yummy.

Looks like I am a bit behind the times with the Town Centre Manager post!

[Manwithaview1]

One of our three cats is called Dilz

[Astronauts]

There is no current Town Centre Manager and hasn't been for years. Julie Sutch was the last one appointed by the council.

The high street is a conservation area, so I presume it includes the new cafe.

If so, they should have applied for permission for their sign.

It's lit which requires advertising consent (even if it's not in a conservation area).

Thier sign probably wouldn't have been granted permission as it's over size and doesn't really fit in with the type of shop. If they have a new shop front, it definitely needs planning and they may be asked to change it if it doesn't fit in with the planning guidance.

If it wasn't a conservation area, shops have the right to change their sign under permitted development as long as the largest lettering isn't over 75 cm tall.

The issue is that planning for shop fronts etc isn't enforced, it's slow, expensive, complicated and badly run. it's not communicated either. The vast majority of shops don't bother with it except high street chains who generally do comply with planning and to be honest, I don't blame them.

Councils have all had their funding cut and have understaffed departments, so I don't blame them either. But out planning system for high streets is broken. It simply doesn't work in the majority of areas.

This problem isn't being addressed. And it could be.

Lastly, Sydenham isn't 'gentrifying'. It's the most lazily overused term connected to high streets. Most of the time it's used to say 'the high street looks less shabby than it did'. Sydenham hasn't really changed that much in the last 8 years I've lived here bar a few independent businesses that have offered something different on the high street or local park. The biggest difference is that there are finally a few child friendly places in the high street.

We rarely go to Sydenham High Street, the main reason is that when we go out, we want a real treat when we spend out money, especially when times are tough. It's nice trying different places, or getting something incredible like the burgers in The Crystal Palace Market. There are some great businesses in Sydenham (Beer Rebellion, OTH, Brown & Green etc) but they are dotted around the high street, not clustered, which means their impact is minimal.

I wish the new cafe well, and I like a good cafe, like the excellent Electric Cafe in West Norwood run by the charming Stavros (as his family have for years). It's cheap and cheerful with really good breakfasts. From places like these, it's nice to know the owner and for it to feel friendly and the food lovingly made by the owner. Large, backlit, corporate signage and generic shop fronts simply don't communicate that or lift it above anything else in surrounding areas. It's like they are ashamed to say 'come in here and get something special'. Those huge signs are expensive too. signwriting isn't expensive.

With good advice, planning, perhaps a local town team of experts at hand to help shops, or even local town teams having control of local planning to make it relevant to the local area, we could have nice, more distinctive high streets (and possibly save local businesses money too).

Totally agree- I've just moved to Sydenham and start testing new local places- been yesterday in beer rebellion and OTH - both really nice!