More restaurants for Sydenham

[Kent House R]

On Saturday night I ordered a takeaway pizza from Trattoria Rafaelle. While I waited they turned away three groups of people because it was completely full.

The previous weekend I went with some friends for brunch at 'On the Hoof' and we had to wait for a table - again, very busy. Gurkhas was also busy on a recent Thursday night.

There aren't enough decent restaurants in Sydenham, but there is clearly a demand at least for the handful of good ones. We desperately need some more places that cater for the sit down meal 'evening out' with wine end of the market.

On the other hand, I have also noted that there is barely anyone in all the takeaway joints - I have no idea how so many survive.

[monkeyarms]

Well, when you say barely anyone in the takeaway joints, don't forget that's in the nature of a takeaway joint to take food away! Also, takeaway joints have fewer overheads; they don't need queues of people.

But I agree, there's a gap in the market there. It's a conversational topic that comes up with just about everyone in Sydenham I speak to.If I were the entrepreneurial type, if I had some spare cash, or if I just happened to know a chef I thought was reasonably good, I would open a restaurant in Sydenham in a second: it's a license to print money. If any eccentric Sydenham-based billionaires happen to read this post: slip me a couple of hundred grand and I'll happily open a restaurant in the cuisine of your choice next month.

I think it comes down to Sydenham being off-radar. If budding restauranteurs were aware about Sydenham's wide-open gastro-goal, we'd get a couple of new restaurants pretty quickly.

[leenewham]

I agree and have been saying this for years. The future of high streets is to sociable places to meet and have fun. They need daytime and nightie economies and they need businesses to be clustered.

There is also the lack of available properties, many people starting a business do no research and they get things wrong or do no marketing. Change of usage can be a problem (remember the issue with BOB Wine recently where a local cllrs was concerned about another off Licence opening?).

There is room for a number of other food businesses to open if they are good and offer value (that doesn't mean cheap, it means a fair price for the quality of the food).

Sydenham is far, far, far from being a destination (although some individual businesses like Trattoria and On The Hoof are), but it could be with some vision.

[marymck]

A shout out for Sydenham's Old High Street. We've the excellent Hibagon and 161 Food+Drink and, in the daytime, Cafe Jasmine and Fig & Pistachio. These are as good or better as anything you'd travel to Central London for and with the Cookery Studio coming soon and plenty of empty shops just waiting for takers, we could have our very own foodie quarter in the making.

[leenewham]

I totally agree with you Mary.

It would be good for the old Windmill to be regenerated to give more space to compliment Kirkdale High Street and Sydenham's 'Foodie Quarter'.

Penge could do this with Maple Road.

[monkeyarms]

The Windmill's under offer, I noticed. I'm surprised actually, as I thought the 1.2 million they were asking was a bit steep. Very interested to see what happens there. I would hazard a guess the offer was a fair bit less than asking price.

I just did a bit of idle googling. If I wanted to open a restaurant in Sydenham next month, I would go for this place :
http://www.movehut.co.uk/property/47667 ... -4qd-/?k=1

It was previously a cafe, so presumably opening a restaurant there wouldn't be a problem or a change of use. (I could be wrong on that...)

And £14,0000 per year isn't really too much of a gamble, seemingly a bargain given they want £70,000 pa for the unit that Sainsburys have their cashpoint in.

[leenewham]

The problem with that place is it's in the middle of nowhere and in a very unattractive building with almost zero footfall. They would have to do something really amazing to make it look the part (which is possible) and market the hell out of it while doing something incredible to attract people.

I think it's best bet is as an office space.

[monkeyarms]

Sure, I'd be amazed if anything remotely interesting happens to that space. But in Brixton or Peckham, people would think nothing of opening a small restaurant or cafe or sandwich shop or deli there; they'd stick the right sign up and bob's your uncle. Beer Rebellion is the closest thing Sydenham has to that kind of guerrilla attitude. If I earned 10K more a year, I'd do it myself. 14K per year really isn't much, especially given it already is set-up for cafe provisions.

I mean, if a wedding-dress shop (!) and a dusty trainers shop can hang on round there, then a restaurant suddenly seems like the sanest option. I'm guessing that the sole reason businesses like that are still there (Zanzibar included, which, for it's huge square feet, doesn't actually hold that many events) is cheap rent.

The point about Sydenham is that you don't need footfall, as there's no competition. If I had posted above saying "surprising news, a new pop-up cafe has opened in that space serving delicious pintxos/fusion tapas/Turkish pide" your response wouldn't have been "it's in the middle of nowhere", it would have been "can't wait to try it". From my point of view, it's no more in the middle of nowhere than Raffaele is: I go to Raffaele because it's the only place to go, not because I especially like that part of the high street.

[appletree]

I doubt the Windmill is really under offer. The sign has been up saying so for more than a year with no change or movement visible. It would be good if something came of it. That stretch of Kirkdale could be so nice if it weren't for the empty shops. The arrival of Hibagon, 161, and Fig and Pistachio have made a big difference, but something needs to happen with the Windmill and the other large space next door. "eShakes" is also a bit yuck.

[FromCtoShiningC]

An ideal 'vacant' location would be the old 'Regency Club' opposite the new Sainsbury's. The footfall there is pretty high (to and from the station) and it's very central.

The area around the Greyhound could be a REAL foodie heaven, if certain things came to pass:
1) Greyhound made into a functioning pub or foodie place
2) Orb becomes a foodie place and/or somewhere to pull the punters
3) Location next to Sainsbury's becomes a restaurant (even 'high street' such as Zizzi or Pizza Express which are both very good value and pretty good and varied food in my view)
4) Blue Mountain Café - nice food and a warm and friendly place I've always found

Such a place would create a vibe (local coffee shops etc also here)... and this WOULD become a destination

Let's make it happen!

[monkeyarms]

I often wonder about the old Regency Club. Was it a snooker hall?

[leenewham]

Trattoria is opposite the Dolphin. It's not far from the Co-op and has pretty good footfall. They have also been really good with marketing, especially online, and they are very good at what they do. But it is surrounded by other shops.

When opening a business is very important to think about where it is. Peckham has a lot of interesting pop up bars etc in odd places, but there are lots of them very close to one another, they have created a vibe, made it a destination.

Clustering businesses works, competition brings in customers. Having similar businesses around you can actually help.

[stuart]

I often wonder about the old Regency Club. Was it a snooker hall?

No, it was a private bar and dining room. It used to host the Sydenham & Forest Hill Rotary Club who on closure decamped to the Golden Lion before defuncting themselves.

Despite a reluctance amongst one of our number I would personally welcome TAS, the Anatolians, to the spare Greyhound unit or indeed to the Greyhound itself or even both. They can do a nice combination of restaurant, bar and patisserie which would complement rather than compete with Sainsbury and the rest of the local shops.

Stuart