Southern has announced that some evening peak services between London Bridge and Sydenham will not run for this rest of this week.
More information at http://www.southernrailway.com/
Southern services to/from London Bridge
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biscuitman1978
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: 16 May 2006 20:14
- Location: Chislehurst; previously Sydenham
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Utter shambles post Christmas works. They may offer apologies but no refunds and many of have no alternate route to use. But thanks for the info!
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
16.36 London Bridge to West Croydon
17.06 London Bridge to West Croydon
17.38 London Bridge to West Croydon
18.06 London Bridge to West Croydon
18.36 London Bridge to West Croydon
Actually It's HALF of all services to Sydenham from LB during the above time period, leaving us with a half hourly service. Instead we are told to go to Canada Water and get the Overground. This takes longer and and is quite unpleasantly busy, even in the early part of the rush hour. By taking 2 services instead of 1 I fear we are more likely to get disrupted. As well as it being tiresome I can't afford to be late, like many others, as I pick up children from childcare In Sydenham.
I don't actually work near LB, usually walking to it, so this week I've been picking up the Overground via DLR to Shadwell, or going to Whitechapel. This is ok as a back up but not as my regular journey, both taking much longer.
If this becomes as permanent thing it will be a great inconvenience for commuters of Sydenham etc. I always used to tell my friends how good public transport was around our way but now it really is not.
Sue
17.06 London Bridge to West Croydon
17.38 London Bridge to West Croydon
18.06 London Bridge to West Croydon
18.36 London Bridge to West Croydon
Actually It's HALF of all services to Sydenham from LB during the above time period, leaving us with a half hourly service. Instead we are told to go to Canada Water and get the Overground. This takes longer and and is quite unpleasantly busy, even in the early part of the rush hour. By taking 2 services instead of 1 I fear we are more likely to get disrupted. As well as it being tiresome I can't afford to be late, like many others, as I pick up children from childcare In Sydenham.
I don't actually work near LB, usually walking to it, so this week I've been picking up the Overground via DLR to Shadwell, or going to Whitechapel. This is ok as a back up but not as my regular journey, both taking much longer.
If this becomes as permanent thing it will be a great inconvenience for commuters of Sydenham etc. I always used to tell my friends how good public transport was around our way but now it really is not.
Sue
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richpickings
- Posts: 75
- Joined: 15 Oct 2006 17:05
- Location: Ex of Kirkdale
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Needless to say, if they hadn't cancelled Southern services from Charing Cross a few years ago, some of these problems will have been avoided.
I saw this coming so moved out of Sydenham three months ago. My sincere sympathies to all those who are suffering
I saw this coming so moved out of Sydenham three months ago. My sincere sympathies to all those who are suffering
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
There are now only 3 tracks into LB for Southern trains instead of 6. A couple of morning trains were removed in the new year, including the one I used to get at 6.48. The morning train I now get has been late all week.
But the evening is so congested with trains and not enough track that the solution is to cut half the Sydenham services and send us on the longer route via Canada Water. I wonder if any extra trains from CW will be put on. There might be capacity as half the LB trains are not running.
If this is a permanent change, until the work is finished in 2018 (!) , it would put me off moving here.
But the evening is so congested with trains and not enough track that the solution is to cut half the Sydenham services and send us on the longer route via Canada Water. I wonder if any extra trains from CW will be put on. There might be capacity as half the LB trains are not running.
If this is a permanent change, until the work is finished in 2018 (!) , it would put me off moving here.
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
There is more and better informed discussion at http://www.londonreconnections.com/2014 ... -blockade/ (page down to the long list of comments from January 5th).
It's a long and tortuous read but here is my precis:
* The construction of the diveunder for ThamesLink has reduced four lines from NXG to just two plus a parking line where empty stock is held to clear the platforms. So basically one up one down.
* The Bermondsey link is being run on the other bi-directional line into platform 15. This is ok off peak but in peak they have to someimes add platform 14. Many are being turned short at Bermondsey.
* This leaves NXG lines with just 4.7 platforms. But platform 10 can currently only take 10 car trains.
* The removal of the bridge means more passengers having to enter/exit narrow platforms & gates
* The schedule has, at peak, 5/6 minute turnrounds which is the theoretical minimum
* There is a shortage of SR & TL drivers at LBG to act as a float to cover delays
* If NR declare the platform before arrival then outgoing/incoming passengers block each other
* If NR declare the platform after arrival there is not enough time for all passengers to clear gate and get aboard without delay (and the concourse gets even more overcrowded)
* The repositioning of the departure boards meant outgoing passengers were having difficulty finding out what trains may be operating
The good news is the last is easily fixable. New boards and human (remember them?) tannoy announcements are working.
The rest is a mess and the removal of the peak evening West Croydon services have not relieved the infrastructure issue. Also many Sydenham trains are being despatched fast to Crystal Palace & Norwood Junction to recover lost time and minimising the cascading of delays.
SR knew last July that the new routes into LBG were a challenge but had to accept them. It would appear that the simulations didn't work out in practice and the problem of turnround compounding the problem. I guess every railway manager's hornby model railway will be running overtime over the weekend to see if they can finesse the train paths.
Suggestions by the armchair managers included:
* Risk the revenue loss and open the gates during peak putting in extra oyster touch stations on concourse or platforms
* Make Victoria a 'reasonable route'. The mainline station can, apparently, take the extra but the rebuild of the connecting tube station concourse will not cope with any extra numbers.
The diveunder 2/3 line issue is going to last until at least the end of 2016 so while things may be tuned a little more - there is unlikely to be a complete short term solution. Also that this week there was no compounding factor (apart from Monday am Merstam signalling). When another event occurs (snow/ice/leaves) we are looking at something much worse as there is no contingency.
The through running of SE trains to Charing X from Monday will also change things. It is unclear whether it will make things better or worse. Pity the poor people coming in by SWT who used Waterloo East and will nowl be forced to use the Jube to LBG. The tube station already being closed on regular basis because of overcrowding. It will be faster to walk.
So good luck. Boy, am I glad I work from home!
Admin
It's a long and tortuous read but here is my precis:
* The construction of the diveunder for ThamesLink has reduced four lines from NXG to just two plus a parking line where empty stock is held to clear the platforms. So basically one up one down.
* The Bermondsey link is being run on the other bi-directional line into platform 15. This is ok off peak but in peak they have to someimes add platform 14. Many are being turned short at Bermondsey.
* This leaves NXG lines with just 4.7 platforms. But platform 10 can currently only take 10 car trains.
* The removal of the bridge means more passengers having to enter/exit narrow platforms & gates
* The schedule has, at peak, 5/6 minute turnrounds which is the theoretical minimum
* There is a shortage of SR & TL drivers at LBG to act as a float to cover delays
* If NR declare the platform before arrival then outgoing/incoming passengers block each other
* If NR declare the platform after arrival there is not enough time for all passengers to clear gate and get aboard without delay (and the concourse gets even more overcrowded)
* The repositioning of the departure boards meant outgoing passengers were having difficulty finding out what trains may be operating
The good news is the last is easily fixable. New boards and human (remember them?) tannoy announcements are working.
The rest is a mess and the removal of the peak evening West Croydon services have not relieved the infrastructure issue. Also many Sydenham trains are being despatched fast to Crystal Palace & Norwood Junction to recover lost time and minimising the cascading of delays.
SR knew last July that the new routes into LBG were a challenge but had to accept them. It would appear that the simulations didn't work out in practice and the problem of turnround compounding the problem. I guess every railway manager's hornby model railway will be running overtime over the weekend to see if they can finesse the train paths.
Suggestions by the armchair managers included:
* Risk the revenue loss and open the gates during peak putting in extra oyster touch stations on concourse or platforms
* Make Victoria a 'reasonable route'. The mainline station can, apparently, take the extra but the rebuild of the connecting tube station concourse will not cope with any extra numbers.
The diveunder 2/3 line issue is going to last until at least the end of 2016 so while things may be tuned a little more - there is unlikely to be a complete short term solution. Also that this week there was no compounding factor (apart from Monday am Merstam signalling). When another event occurs (snow/ice/leaves) we are looking at something much worse as there is no contingency.
The through running of SE trains to Charing X from Monday will also change things. It is unclear whether it will make things better or worse. Pity the poor people coming in by SWT who used Waterloo East and will nowl be forced to use the Jube to LBG. The tube station already being closed on regular basis because of overcrowding. It will be faster to walk.
So good luck. Boy, am I glad I work from home!
Admin
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
2 things that would be worth trying:
a) shut down New Cross on the Overground for peak (and perhaps all day) to get the extra OG trains to Crystal Palace (as between Christmas / New Year). Admittedly there is still the challenge to get to Canada Water
b) add frequency to the Blackfriars / Crofton Park / Catford service (currently a joke 2 trains / hr). Would provide an alternative for those using Lon Bridge and disembarking Brockley / HOP.
But, yes, if you can wfh - even if part of the week, do so!
a) shut down New Cross on the Overground for peak (and perhaps all day) to get the extra OG trains to Crystal Palace (as between Christmas / New Year). Admittedly there is still the challenge to get to Canada Water
b) add frequency to the Blackfriars / Crofton Park / Catford service (currently a joke 2 trains / hr). Would provide an alternative for those using Lon Bridge and disembarking Brockley / HOP.
But, yes, if you can wfh - even if part of the week, do so!
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biscuitman1978
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: 16 May 2006 20:14
- Location: Chislehurst; previously Sydenham
Southern services to/from London Bridge
Latest update for Monday 12 to Friday 16 January 2015:
Source: http://www.southernrailway.com/London Bridge - Southern and Network Rail apologise for the disruption and delays at London Bridge recently.
The new track layout on the approach to the station has meant that so far, it has been a challenge to deliver the new timetable. We have reviewed this and made some changes to a small number of evening peak services to help us to deliver an improved service for you.
These include the withdrawal of the 16.36, 17.06, 17.38, 18.06 & 18.36 London Bridge to West Croydon services. Passengers requiring Anerley and Penge West should travel to New Cross Gate and change for London Overground services. Alternatively, tickets will be accepted on London Underground between London Bridge and Canada Water for a change to London Overground services.
As a result of the above changes the 17.12, 17.42 and 18.13 West Croydon to London Bridge services are also withdrawn.
Additionally, in order to ease congestion on the approach to London Bridge the 17.51 Tattenham Corner to London Bridge service will terminate at Purley and instead attach to the re-timed 18.09 Caterham to London Bridge service. The 18.09 Caterham to London Bridge train will depart four minutes earlier than scheduled from Caterham (18.05), Whyteleafe South (18.08), Whyteleafe (18.10) and Kenley (18.13) then attach at Purley to the 17.51 Tattenham Corner train, the combined train will then run through to London Bridge where it is scheduled to arrive at 19.03.
These arrangements will remain in place between Monday 12th and Friday 16th January 2015.
We continue to monitor the service at London Bridge and assess if any long term changes to train services are required.
To help with passenger flow at London Bridge, extra information screens have been installed to allow the concourse to be used more evenly.
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
The "Southern services" were only half-hourly, and didn't run during the rush-hour, I think? And I think they would only have displaced the problem to Charing Cross, which then wouldn't have had enough platforms available to run the Southeastern services, I'd guess.richpickings wrote:Needless to say, if they hadn't cancelled Southern services from Charing Cross a few years ago, some of these problems will have been avoided.
I saw this coming so moved out of Sydenham three months ago. My sincere sympathies to all those who are suffering
I'm desperately trying to get out of Sydenham - but then, I have been for the last 18 months to no avail
I'm wondering what on earth it's going to be like from Monday - and thinking myself quite lucky that I don't commute, or not that much.-
Parker1970
- Posts: 514
- Joined: 4 Nov 2014 22:36
- Location: Anerely
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
What I can't grasp is why, if they are asking passengers to go via Canada Water / London Overground instead, have they not laid on any extra trains on London Overground. Or even extended the amount of 5 car trains. Since the extra carriage services were introduced a couple of months ago, I have only ONCE been on one in peak times.
I use the London Overground only (to and from Rotherhithe) and find that stressful enough packed in like sardines, I can't imagine what you guys who need London Bridge must be going through.
The reduction in evening peak services from London Bridge is supposed to be temporary. In fact the website says it was until last Friday and has not been updated to say otherwise, so does this mean it should be better this week?
I use the London Overground only (to and from Rotherhithe) and find that stressful enough packed in like sardines, I can't imagine what you guys who need London Bridge must be going through.
The reduction in evening peak services from London Bridge is supposed to be temporary. In fact the website says it was until last Friday and has not been updated to say otherwise, so does this mean it should be better this week?
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Southern are tweeting that the temporary reduction of evening services is being extended until this Friday. I imagine the same thing will happen again for next week... and the next.
Agree we need extra Overground services to compensate.
Agree we need extra Overground services to compensate.
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Southern has now updated its website to confirm this.Suzee wrote:Southern are tweeting that the temporary reduction of evening services is being extended until this Friday.
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biscuitman1978
- Posts: 1588
- Joined: 16 May 2006 20:14
- Location: Chislehurst; previously Sydenham
Southern services to/from London Bridge
Southern has updated its website with details of changes to trains in and out of London Bridge from 19 January 2015 - see http://www.southernrailway.com/southern ... -services/
For those travelling to/from Sydenham:
For those travelling to/from Sydenham:
The following services which have been withdrawn since Wednesday 7 January remain withdrawn:
They are the 16.36, 17.06, 17.38, 18.06 and 18.36 London Bridge to West Croydon services and the 17.12, 17.42 and 18.13 West Croydon to London Bridge services.
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
A good day to wfh. From the Southern site:
"Delays between Sydenham and London Bridge / Canada Water until at least 08:30
A signalling problem near New Cross Gate means journeys are being delayed by up to 20 minutes between Sydenham and London Bridge / Canada Water.
London Overground services between Crystal Palace and Highbury & Islington will not run between Crystal Palace and New Cross Gate.
London Overground services from Highbury & Islington to Crystal Palace will not run between Surrey Quays and Crystal Palace.
There is no firm estimate yet of how long disruption will last but it is likely to continue until at least 08:30."
I'm beginning to think they should close Lon Bridge completely at a weekend if that is what it takes to fix the signalling (if of course they have any idea how to fix it). "
Looks like the signalling is now totally ****ed.
"Delays between Sydenham and London Bridge / Canada Water until at least 08:30
A signalling problem near New Cross Gate means journeys are being delayed by up to 20 minutes between Sydenham and London Bridge / Canada Water.
London Overground services between Crystal Palace and Highbury & Islington will not run between Crystal Palace and New Cross Gate.
London Overground services from Highbury & Islington to Crystal Palace will not run between Surrey Quays and Crystal Palace.
There is no firm estimate yet of how long disruption will last but it is likely to continue until at least 08:30."
I'm beginning to think they should close Lon Bridge completely at a weekend if that is what it takes to fix the signalling (if of course they have any idea how to fix it). "
Looks like the signalling is now totally ****ed.
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Parker1970
- Posts: 514
- Joined: 4 Nov 2014 22:36
- Location: Anerely
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
Yup, I was caught up in all that this morning. Thankfully an Overground came along but by the time we got to the next stop, Forest Hill, the train was full. People at Honor Oak, Brockley, New Cross gate were not happy as they could not board.
Interestingly after my earlier post here complaining that they should put on EXTRA overground services and more 5 car trains during this disruption, I received an email from TFL yesterday.
"Dear Mr Chapman,
I apologise for the unacceptable level of service on London Overground's route from Highbury & Islington to West Croydon, Crystal Palace and Clapham Junction.
As you know, there have been significant service issues at London Bridge and both Southern and Network Rail accept that performance has not been good enough. As we share the same tracks as trains operated by Southern to and from London Bridge, there has been a knock on effect on our services.
We are pressing Network Rail and Southern to address these issues as quickly as possible so that we can restore your services to their previous standard. And, as part of our existing programme to improve your service, we are continuing to introduce an extra carriage on your trains to increase capacity.
I will keep you informed of progress. "
I have been on two more 5 car services this week but more improvements are needed if they want more London Bridge customers to go via Canada Water. End of.
Interestingly after my earlier post here complaining that they should put on EXTRA overground services and more 5 car trains during this disruption, I received an email from TFL yesterday.
"Dear Mr Chapman,
I apologise for the unacceptable level of service on London Overground's route from Highbury & Islington to West Croydon, Crystal Palace and Clapham Junction.
As you know, there have been significant service issues at London Bridge and both Southern and Network Rail accept that performance has not been good enough. As we share the same tracks as trains operated by Southern to and from London Bridge, there has been a knock on effect on our services.
We are pressing Network Rail and Southern to address these issues as quickly as possible so that we can restore your services to their previous standard. And, as part of our existing programme to improve your service, we are continuing to introduce an extra carriage on your trains to increase capacity.
I will keep you informed of progress. "
I have been on two more 5 car services this week but more improvements are needed if they want more London Bridge customers to go via Canada Water. End of.
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
'Signalling problems' doesn't always mean problems with signals. I think Southern/National Rail have a limited set of excuses. Previous instances last week turned out to be the scheduling issues in getting four lanes of track traffic into two as a result of the changes necessary to build the Bermondsey diveunder.
It would appear we get 'grid lock' which means signals all go to red which is then a signalling issue. It is the symptom, not the cause. Southern appear to be trying to tune the minimum amount of schedule removals necessary to get reliable running. This is in addition to the reductions they announced BEFORE Christmas as they always knew this was going to be difficult.
I feel sorry for Southern. The track compounded by the platform issues was a fait d'accompli by National Rail. They are trying to run a quart into a pint pot. And continue to do so until the changes are complete. Worse the changes will not benefit us - its Thameslink trains that get the benefit and then so much as was originally hoped. And due to the LBG reconstruction and franchise change their passengers are having an even more torrid time.
The answer, of course, would have been to close LBG (and the lines that run through it) completely for two years. Yep, I don't think that would have gone down well either ...
Admin
It would appear we get 'grid lock' which means signals all go to red which is then a signalling issue. It is the symptom, not the cause. Southern appear to be trying to tune the minimum amount of schedule removals necessary to get reliable running. This is in addition to the reductions they announced BEFORE Christmas as they always knew this was going to be difficult.
I feel sorry for Southern. The track compounded by the platform issues was a fait d'accompli by National Rail. They are trying to run a quart into a pint pot. And continue to do so until the changes are complete. Worse the changes will not benefit us - its Thameslink trains that get the benefit and then so much as was originally hoped. And due to the LBG reconstruction and franchise change their passengers are having an even more torrid time.
The answer, of course, would have been to close LBG (and the lines that run through it) completely for two years. Yep, I don't think that would have gone down well either ...
Admin
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
It seems it really was a signal this morning. Trouble is things are so tight between NCX & LBG that any problem escalates:
http://www.eastlondonlines.co.uk/2015/0 ... ellations/
Admin
http://www.eastlondonlines.co.uk/2015/0 ... ellations/
Admin
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
They always have hadadmin wrote:'Signalling problems' doesn't always mean problems with signals. I think Southern/National Rail have a limited set of excuses.
I remember in the days when I used to commute, and the driver would come on the PA outside LB and announce that it was a points failure; at LB the platform announcer would say that it was a signal failure, and once we got to Charing Cross it would have transmuted into a train failure, or something!-
somerandombloke
- Posts: 599
- Joined: 9 Jan 2015 20:01
- Location: the elephant enclosure
Re: Southern services to/from London Bridge
I am deligted to be back in the world of comuting. The job Im on this week needs 2trains in the morning an 2 in the evning and so far none of them has been on time. Next week Im up the Palace so its just a bus each way thank god.