SEE3 and now Zanzibar

[art4]

I have followed the ‘Project Zanzibar ‘thread.

Agree with Gaddison.

But an important issue has been overlooked here. What has happened with the Portas Pilot in Sydenham? Clearly the pop up shops did not work because if they did then would have been able to sustain their business in SE26.
I do not understand where the Portas Pilot (SEE3) money has been spent. If it had gone well then we would have heard about this.

I’d like to know a full breakdown of how the awarded money was spent.

Key people involved in the SEE3 project are proposing that they can do something worthwhile with Zanzibar.
They were unable to sustain even one pop up shop. They were even forced to close down their own business hub, which was there to advice start up businesses. This did not work. . .there were supposed to be two hubs, the second did not even happen.

Louise, Belinda the protagonists of this next plan re: Zanzibar- require a reality check.

[Tim Lund]

Deleted.

[leenewham]

Regarding the Portas Pilot, you should ask Chris Best who is the director and chair of SEE3.

Louise is perfectly cited to help turn Zanzibar into a community asset from sone that currently is causing problems in the community. If you want to help rather than criticise, then you should really get in touch with her.

Have you seen the Butchers in Forest Hill. That was a pop up shop. Syds Vintage in Kirkdale perhaps? What about Bluebell Woods? These were all pop ups.

The hub was never going to stay there forever and it now has a fantastic asset in Cherry & Ice in the high street, that members of SEE3 helped get into the unit.

See3 could have achieved a lot more in Sydenham, but I don't put that down to Louise and the pop ups. But that's another story.

It's worth questioning what's been going on, but the tone of your post still smacks of sour grapes.

It's worth checking out http://www.see3.co.uk

If you have looked there you will see that there is a second hub in Forest Hill (Jack in a box) and there are still things going on.

Saying that Belinda and Louise need 'a reality check' when they have worked behind the scenes to actually DO SOMETHING, which includes trials with the club to bring it into the arts festival with events like Jonathan's 'Bouncers' show is, frankly, totally unfair.

It's all very well sitting there saying you would do something better, but would you like to list what you have brought to see3 except moan about it? Why not approach a shop that you want to help, perhaps with an event or window display or signage or perhaps try a street event, or and art display. Why not get involved in some way, even a small way rather than just venting.

I started on this forum criticising the high street because it looked shabby. Then I tried to do something about it. The first way drew me lots of criticism and some rather angry pm's. The second brought me closer to shops in the high street and I managed to make a small difference.

How about a reality check of your own?

Sit and criticise under an alias on a forum, or get stuck in and try to make a difference?

[marymck]

The accounts will be in the public domain, though I couldn't find them on the See3 website. Maybe that won't happen till they're audited. Why don't you PM Chris Best and request a look-see? I'm sure all is above board and no one has anything to hide.

[art4]

Thanks Mary. I have not though worried that anything regarding the funds was not above board

More interested because it would help to evaluate which parts of the project worked well versus the money spent. Or vice versa where was it less effective.

To help set the record straight here: I am fully aware that Louise and her team were fully committed to ensuring the success of SEE3. I understand this will not have been an easy job. However this does not mean necessarily that they were effective at all times. Which of course may not only be down to them?

Quite evidently the pop ups have not worked in Sydenham as well as they have done in say Forest Hill. There are multiple confounding factors which may have affected this. The choice of product; locations; marketing and so on.
I felt there was a lack of cohesiveness- that the pop ups were disconnected from each other.

That an exciting opportunity was lost in some ways- it fell flat in some areas. These were my observations which should not be taken as criticism more as a critique.

Lee I’m slightly bored of you saying that my posts smack of sour grapes. I’m not sure why you suggest either that I require a reality check.

And why, how could I bring anything to SEE3? I was not asked to be involved and because of the types of concepts in some cases, quite literally held no appeal to me.

I do however in my own way hopefully contribute to the local community. We run a gallery in Dulwich which represents over 200 local artists. We are committed to working with other local businesses and constantly form collaborations and are proactively always on the lookout for similar opportunities.
We are open to ideas and suggestions.

I have considered opening a gallery in Sydenham and have a particular space in mind. Perhaps I would have acted on this had I seen some stability with the pop ups- which I lost track of really because they were so transient. There should have been a real buzz generated but there was not in my opinion.

However I’ll look into the idea of opening a gallery here further. Which will include researching if this has appeal to the locals? Is this something they would want? This would require a different approach to the model we use in Dulwich. And perhaps should be collaboration; be a multi-use space- not only offer art for sale.

[leenewham]

I also look forward to not being bored by sour grapes sounding posts (I think it's the majority of people saying this rather than just me by the way, because it's been quite a few people saying it!) and seeing some positive posts that actually add something to the community.

Good luck, we will support you if you want our help, as we would anything positive coming to Sydenham.

[Eagle]

I am not sure why they are still using Zanzibar as the name of the complex. This name has been severely tarnished by its association with the rowdy nightclub. That association will not go away unless the name is changed.

You might as well call it Heligoland , as the islands history is interwoven.

Anyone on the council who votes for the continuation of the nightclub should have to live for six months adjacent to it.

[Rachael]

The Portas 'Pilots' are just that, pilot projects, aiming to find out what works and what doesn't. If everything in a pilot project was successful, there would be no need for a pilot at all. I'm sure in due course there will be an evaluation of all the pilot projects, and recommendations on what works where, and why, as well as a recognition of which interventions failed in their aims and under what circumstances.

[art4]

Lee:

Why would you say ‘sour grapes’?
We ended up running a hugely successful pop up gallery which enabled us to then open a permanent space in a great location.
Are involved in numerous projects, it’s exciting times.

[art4]

Portas Pilot Projects:

Key Criteria For The Vision:
- Anchored in shoppers and locality
- Supported by the audit
- Financially viable
- Sustainable
- Scalable
- Aligned with town planning

Key Aim For
The Vision:
- Drive Footfall
- Weekly Essentials
- Social Needs
Based Services

[leenewham]

Dear Joanne,
Good luck, we will support you if you want our help on any project sin Sydenham, as we would anything positive coming to Se26.

Have a very good evening (apologies to Nigel for stealing this!)

Lee

P.S. Eagle, the name of Zanzibar will change no doubt (and should) once (and if) it changes it's business model. There is no point chaining the name unless the business changes. New branding should bring in real change. Not the illusion of change.

[art4]

Thank you Lee.

I'll keep you informed via the forum if I decide to explore the idea of a gallery further. Of course there is The Lovely Gallery open now too.

But I am open to ideas and suggestions too- joining up with other complimentary businesses

Joanne

[Chris Best]

In answer to Mary the year end for SEE3 Limited is 31 March 2014 and we will be submitting our accounts in the next 3 months. The contract for the Town Team Manager, Tony Buckley, comes to an end in the next few weeks and SEE3 will receive his evaluation as part of his contract.

We are working on our legacy and Sydenham Market returns on Saturday 12 April on Venner Square and Queensthorpe Square starting at 11am and closing at 5pm. One of our learning points was to move the market from Sunday to Saturday as this will bring additional footfall to the high street. I will give a full account of the spend and initiatives in due course.

[FromCtoShiningC]

I think a gallery in Sydenham would be a wonderful thing. What type of art/sculpture (etc) would you display? It would certainly get my support

[art4]

There is already a gallery in Sydenham which is well worth visiting, called The Lovely Gallery

Currently our gallery is based in Dulwich Village, here's our facebook page to give you an idea of what we do there:

www.facebook.com/DulwichContemporaryArtGallery

And some further info here:

http://dulwichonview.org.uk/2014/03/25/ ... t-the-dog/

[art4]

As mentioned somewhere on this thread we would like to consider the feasibility of opening an art gallery in SE26.

As one start point:

We would be very interested to hear from forum members if they think this could be of benefit to the local area and would be something which they would find useful. Likewise to hear from local complimentary businesses who may be interested in a collaboration/ partnership?

In my previous post I’ve supplied some information about how we run our gallery in Dulwich Village (SE21).
I’m inclined to think we would need to adjust the formula we use in SE21 if we did open in SE26. There largely we sell to local residents which is a different demographic, although there are some overlaps.

Possibly the price point needs to be different to reflect this? We strongly believe that art needs to be accessible and anchored to local consumers, helping to drive footfall to that area.

The potential advantage SE26 has compared to SE21 are its great transport links. So in addition with the right marketing a gallery here could become a destination place.

However that would be a lot easier to achieve if there were a cluster of interesting shops to visit. I cannot really visualise people thinking lets go to spend the afternoon browsing in SE26 at this point in time. That’s not to say there are not some great shops here, but there are not enough to attract new visitors on the whole.

This is why I feel the SEE3 pop ups have missed a great opportunity. In my opinion the overall implementation and management did not fulfil the Portas Pilot’s key criteria and aims for the vision. I’ve outlined what these were earlier in this thread.

To recap- I would really appreciate hearing from forum members their views on us opening a gallery in SE26 or to hear from local businesses with the view of forming a partnership.

I live in SE26 and love the idea of running a business here if I believed that it could be a financially viable, sustainable venture and is something the locals would like and use.

Joanne

[michael]

As you point out, there is already one art gallery in Sydenham, so there is already some complementarity for another art gallery.

In Dulwich I would hope that a successful art gallery would attract visitors to the Dulwich Picture Gallery, which is the main visitor attraction in Dulwich. Other areas in South East London (excluding the South Bank) do not have high quality public Galleries of this nature, so it is not just local disposable income that needs to be considered (even if it is extremely high in Dulwich Village).

Although I would not want to distract you too much from considering the possibilities in Sydenham, I would suggest that you also look at Forest Hill, the other major part of the Portas area, and (for the sake of disclosure) where I live.
Forest Hill already has Doopo Doopo, Montage, Canvas and Cream - all of which have gallery space. It also has an existing artistic community in Havelock Walk and much more coming soon to Louise House (next to the swimming pool). If you are looking for the benefits of clustering, visitor attractions (pool and museum), and great transport links then Forest Hill is certainly worth considering.

[art4]

Michael

Thanks for your thoughts. I’m definitely not attracting visitors to Dulwich Picture Gallery! More the case I can benefit from them drawing immense interest from far afield to their fantastic exhibitions.

However, I do agree Forest Hill could be an interesting alternative to SE26. I’m not currently aware though of a suitable space for a gallery. My greater preference would be to focus on opening in Sydenham- this is where I live. The high street requires some kind of boost here.
Whilst the new Tattoo shop has received mixed opinions on this forum, I’m really impressed with their shop front and it’s this area around Cobbs Corner which holds most interest to me.

[michael]

I’m definitely not attracting visitors to Dulwich Picture Gallery! More the case I can benefit from them drawing immense interest from far afield to their fantastic exhibitions.

That was what I meant.

However, I do agree Forest Hill could be an interesting alternative to SE26. I’m not currently aware though of a suitable space for a gallery.

I guess that depends what you want. It is not as if there is a lack of empty shops in SE23.

My greater preference would be to focus on opening in Sydenham- this is where I live. The high street requires some kind of boost here.

I agree and I'm sure another art gallery at that end would help. But it is at odds with what you previously said:

I cannot really visualise people thinking lets go to spend the afternoon browsing in SE26 at this point in time. That’s not to say there are not some great shops here, but there are not enough to attract new visitors on the whole.

If you are an 'early adopter' then you need to accept the area has 'potential', rather than being able to see people browsing this afternoon. But what Sydenham requires is a few local people to take a bit of a risk to open the types of shops they think would benefit the high street.

I'm not entirely sure this is within the spirit of the Sydenham Town Forum

Personally I don't see Sydenham and Forest Hill as different countries. What is good for one is good for the other and what needs to be encouraged is greater knowledge of each town centre in the other town centre, which are just 2 minutes apart on the train. Which is why I occasionally recommend businesses open in Sydenham rather than Forest Hill, when there are more suitable locations (you probably won't see me do this publicly).

[art4]

Thanks for your reply.

I have noticed there are empty shops in Forest Hill but have not noticed one suitable for a gallery. If you have please let me know.

My aims here are to explore ideas, have tried to explain clearly my thoughts so far and cannot see where I have contradicted myself.

But could be seen to be if my sentences are cut and pasted, isolated, because this removes the overall context and can be misleading.

What is an ‘early adopter’?

I can see that SE26 has great potential; if I did not then I would not be considering the possibility of retailing here.

And I accept that this would require an element of risk. I have opened up businesses before in areas which were not exactly on the map of retail success both in the UK and abroad. However these were carefully weighed up risks which I am trying to start doing at the moment.

I must say thanks for your altruistic activity, time spent occasionally promoting SE26 only 2 mins away by train.