KIcking off in Lewisham

[mrtimelover]

Just been down the highstreet, around the Hexagon building area and a lot of the shops were closed. My local news agent was closed, who usually never closes even in the harshest conditions (Weather wise), but I guess this was enough to get it closed. Costcutter looked like a mess from where I was standing. The cage was half closed and there were around 4 -5 youths hanging around out there. To tell you the truth I don't remember seeing one shop open, but I may be wrong.

There have been rumors that another looting session is being organised on twitter and other social networking sites for another attack on Sainsbury's in Bell Green. I'd be careful if you live near there. I wouldn't stay around there too long as trouble could start at any time.

[The Clown]

Whilst removing high value goods is warranted, Boarding up is worrying and would seem to me to be the wrong response.

As has been previously suggested, we need to be visible on the streets of Sydenham this evening and protecting our community by showing shopkeepers and business owners our support.
If shops/businesses board up, they prevent us from being able to do that.

There seems to be a lot more scare-mongering going on than actual incidents. Although I do appreciate that they are very frightening when they do happen, there are significantly more lovely Sydenamites than there are potential rioters. We need to remember that.

I went to Ealing today, to check on a premise that I manage there. Again, it looks far worse on the news and twitter reports than it does on the streets.

I wonder whether the insurance companies are forcing their hand?

[Savvy]

I agree. I'm not in favour of boarding up shops and us all going home to cower behind the sofa. That's like saying 'come and get us'. These are youths, not the attack of the zombies. Don't just lie down people!
I'll be leaving work at four and I'll be in the high street going about my business and walking at my own pace.

[lulahblu]

High St shutting down... Just went to check it out. Real tension in the air of anticipated trouble. Locals grouping on street, shops shut down and a few clusters of youths with their mobiles milling about. Worrying stuff.

[Rachael]

I really believe closing everything down is exactly the wrong thing to do. If we are on the high street carrying out our lawful business, that can only be for the good. It will only work if they deploy police up and down the street to take our place.

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[Checkmate]

I find it fascinating how people's perceptions colour their posts....lulahblu feels tension and is worried, Savvy is going to walk up the high street and won't be intimidated!

I took a walk down the high street about an hour ago....some shops were already shut (especially pawn shops and jewellers), some were shutting, and my barber told me he was staying open (words to the effect of "why should I shut up shop and give in?")

I suspect the situation in terms of shop closures is a little worse now (Lloyds TSB and the little convenience store ont he corner of Newlands Park have shut since I got home) but I don't hear any sirens, smashing glass, or hordes of screaming youths from my vantage point somewhere around the station end of the high street.

Be cautious, but don't panic.

[Savvy]

Human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell
tweets: People massing non-violently to defend communities can defeat rioters. We need solidarity #londonriots #riots #UKuncut #duggan

[alywin]

Whilst removing high value goods is warranted, Boarding up is worrying and would seem to me to be the wrong response.

As has been previously suggested, we need to be visible on the streets of Sydenham this evening and protecting our community by showing shopkeepers and business owners our support.
If shops/businesses board up, they prevent us from being able to do that.

There seems to be a lot more scare-mongering going on than actual incidents.

It worries me, too, although who can blame a shopkeeper for not wanting to run the risk of bodily injury, or worse.

I was in Penge High Street 3 hours ago, and wasn't aware of any damage - I went up pretty much as far as MacDonald's. I'm now on Beckenham Road, and although a few shops - a bookies and a convenience store - have shut up I'm not currently aware of anything else.

[The Clown]

Just spoke to our insurance company to see whether insurance advice was playing a hand. The advice given was to "aways act as if you don't have insurance" which does rather explain things. I also hear that Sydenham DIY are helping the shops with the task, so there is at least an underlying comradery amongst our store-keepers. No easy answers all round.

[marymck]

I was at the shops at the junction of Kirkdale/Wells Park Road at about 1.30. I actually didn't need anything but as a gesture of support, I went to buy some goodies from our lovely French bakery & bits & bobs from the other local shops. The bakery was closed. Tesco had closed, as had the estate agent, Costcutters & most other shops. Ram was doing more business than he's probably done since Tesco opened. It was all a bit feverish really, everyone was scared. I was told by a shopkeeper (who I'll keep anonymous for their protection) that a mob was on its way from Penge.

It actually had that sort of feeling that a tidal wave was approaching. I caught a bus home for speed &the bus driver was warning everyone not to go to Catford or Bromley, as they were closed off.

I don't know how true are the rumours of the Penge mob, or the trouble in Catford and Bromley, but there was a horrible, horrible atmosphere of fear, which quite caught me up in it. When I got home I saw a neighbour leaving the house with her newborn. I had to warn her what was going on. I hope it's not true, I really do, but I'd rather spoil her day out than have her walk into danger with a new baby.

What we need now is a real good thunderstorm & some torrential rain. Either that or a water cannon.

[la_verita]

Apparently there has been looting in Penge High Street, and gangs of kids have begun congregating in Crystal Palace Park and in the flats near Penge East Station.

I was in Sydenham High Street at lunch time and as I walked in to Somerfield was asked to leave as were others customers in store as they began to shut up shop due to reports of threats of looting. Most other shops had their shutters down but were still open.

IMHO the kids, and that's all it is, gangs of kids, will only do something when there is no threat of retaliation. If we all shut up shop, go home and leave the streets empty they have nothing to fear. If the High Street stays as busy as it normally is with people going about their daily business the kids won't do anything because there will be witnesses. The majority of all crimes are crimes of opportunism. By giving in and shutting ourselves in doors we are giving them the opportunity to behave this way.

[marymck]

On the other hand, if trouble does start, then bystanders should keep off the streets, so that the police can have a freer (and heavier hand) without fear of hurting the innocent.

I also seriously believe that once these perps are identified, any benefits they receive (including free travelcards) should be removed.

The was a looter on Sky last night saying that in stealing from Currys she was "getting some of [her] taxes back." Wot?!

[parklife]

I've booked a table at the new Italian restuarant next to the Golden lion this evening for my wife and I for my birthday meal.

I really hope they open as I am determined to go.

[la_verita]

This is what our youth think of it all: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

Disgusting!

[sophie]

Paultreacy - As a teacher I disagree that schools aren't providing much guidance! Mind you, as it has come from teachers etc they don't always want to listen. Also it is hard to engage them in such a way that the effect lasts once they leave the school gates. The school I work in doesn't provide as much as we should, granted, as it does seem to provide less than the big secondary schools that serve Sydenham, namely Forest Hill, Sydenham and Sedgehill. I completely agree with something you said in an earlier post about some children being easily led etc and that things like this are the most exciting thing ever for some of them. The pack mentality thing is so strong. I see it on the odd occasion there is a fight in the playground at school. The adrenaline rush for the kids involved and then the excitement from the spectators can be pretty scary. However, I think that generally in these situations the children know that playgrounds are a safe place (mostly) and expect and want someone to come along and break it up - this way none of them lose face etc. The problem on the streets is that those boundaries aren't there - they get wound up and full of adrenaline and then go along with whatever is happening. It isn't just adults, kids say they don't feel safe on the streets (even most of those in gangs apparently - supposedly a reason for joining a gang is to feel safer).

[tizzyness]

Whilst I like the idea, I’m not so sure that the ordinary people going about their everyday business stopped the horrific criminal damage in Clapham, Croydon, Hackney and elsewhere yesterday. The advice from the police et al is that if there are any signs of trouble, you should clear the area to allow the police to do their job. It’s a lot easier for them to intercept/arrest the thugs if there aren’t onlookers in the way.
It’s not nice to think of a community in lock down (I haven’t seen what’s going on in Sydenham because I’m stuck at work in the City), but if I had a business on the high street, my priority would be to protect it, and myself.

[MariaSydenham]

Does anyone know of any trouble in Forest Hill??

Sending out lots of positive vibes and energy to all my lovely Sydenham\Forest Hill neighbours.

There are social issues that are surfacing here, but we just want to get on with our peaceful lives, don't we? This is a really sad state of affairs...

[Rachael]

There is a balance to be struck. If there is actually trouble going on, of course you should clear the area. But clearing the area just in case is asking for trouble. So although it seems counterintuitive, I think the shopkeepers are making themselves more vulnerable rather than less by closing up and driving us all away.

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[alywin]

I know Westminster Council has an online resource for local businesses etc. where they can check up on potential issues which could cause trouble. Does anyone know if there's anything like that for our local area?

Edit: this is what I was thinking of: http://www.communitysafe.gov.uk/

[sophie]

I've just come back in from a drive along the high street and most shops are shut or in the process of closing. Fast food outlets are generally open.

I have considered going to the gym for a swim etc as LA Fitness is open but then as they have random acts of nuttiness from members of the public on a fairly frequent basis I'm not sure it would be the best place IF a whole load of rioters/looters do pass through Sydenham. Especially if they're open and everywhere else is closed!!!

Someone mentioned about Sydenhamnites being good people etc. I agree. I think that the groups will be moving further afield (being brave enough now to venture outside the comfort zones of their own areas) so won't be looting on their home turf. This is just me summising as don't have proof of anything.