Well they certainly wont be getting my custom no matter what they open as. Im absolutely fuming at their addition to our high street.
But i dont know who are more to blame, the owner or Lewisham Council. Is it worth notifying Lewisham, has someone already done this?
The old chemists next to the old HSBC
Cannot understand how LBC are not aware of this. Do they not have a Town Centre Manageress. I assume she must walk up the street every day.
Whilst I agree 100% that this should not have been done we have to appreciate the problem the owner would have had renting the property with the insistence of the retention of all the old windows etc?
Lets face it if when the chemist closed , must be 25 plus years ago , someone would have pulled down the old windows would have been little comment.
Very difficult problem
Whilst I agree 100% that this should not have been done we have to appreciate the problem the owner would have had renting the property with the insistence of the retention of all the old windows etc?
Lets face it if when the chemist closed , must be 25 plus years ago , someone would have pulled down the old windows would have been little comment.
Very difficult problem
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Cheese Wotsits
- Posts: 35
- Joined: 6 Jun 2008 17:35
- Location: sydenham
If they have destroyed the old shop and the leaded glass frontage, I will whole-heartedly boycott any shop that goes in there. I will tell everyone I know in the area not to go and would even go so far as to stand in front of the dammed place with a sign telling people not to use it. Hit’em where it counts!
If the old front is intact I will very publicly apologize!
Does anyone know how to get the council involved? If appropriate fines are not put in place maybe we should start a public campaign to hold the council to task. I think between this and the cock-up where Lewisham replaced sash windows on one of there own properties – in the conservation district – with pvc double glazed, there must be a news worthy storey in there someplace.
If the old front is intact I will very publicly apologize!
Does anyone know how to get the council involved? If appropriate fines are not put in place maybe we should start a public campaign to hold the council to task. I think between this and the cock-up where Lewisham replaced sash windows on one of there own properties – in the conservation district – with pvc double glazed, there must be a news worthy storey in there someplace.
Its worth contacing them.parker wrote:By carrying out work without permission on a listed building like this in a Conservation area could leave the owner, developer and building contractor liable to prosecution, fines upto the damage that it is worth and possibly imprisonment by Lewisham. This means Lewisham can also require them to restore the building to its state of how it was before work commenced or to mitigate the effects of the damage under a 'listed building enforcement notice'.
As it is in a conservation area if the shop front is in disrepair that it is at risk of being destroyed or unreplaceable Lewisham would have to serve an 'urgent works notice'. This would enable Lewisham Council themselves to carry out any work which is 'urgently necessary' and then recover the cost from the owner.
I am as annoyed as the next person that the original shop front has gone. However, I will not avoid the shop because of this, and I direct my anger towards Lewisham Council, who should have made it a term of the lease that the original frontage remain in place and failing that should have made it absolutely clear that the frontage needs to remain. I can't believe the new tennant would have blatantly disregarded this information if they were in possession of it, especially since the consequences of doing so maybe a hefty fine or the great expense of undoing the damage done. If the tennants were unaware that the frontage was protected, I can see why they would not want a window with "Chemist" written all over it when this is not their line of business.
As for the new frontage- well the blue and yellow sign is pretty awful, but the new window is actually ok.
I can't believe this is going to be a coffee shop if the rumour is true, when I first moved to Sydenham 2 years ago people on this very forum were posting about the sore lack thereof, and since then we have the Bule Mountain, Sugar Hill and Milano.
can we start complaining about the lack of upmarket bars and see if we can have the same effect?
As for the new frontage- well the blue and yellow sign is pretty awful, but the new window is actually ok.
I can't believe this is going to be a coffee shop if the rumour is true, when I first moved to Sydenham 2 years ago people on this very forum were posting about the sore lack thereof, and since then we have the Bule Mountain, Sugar Hill and Milano.
can we start complaining about the lack of upmarket bars and see if we can have the same effect?
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sydenhamboy
- Posts: 264
- Joined: 8 Oct 2006 10:33
- Location: sydenham
Poppy's right. We need to be pro-active. I said it before on another thread that the only people that read this (in general) is us! We tend to end up preaching to the converted.
I've peaked thru the papered-up front window and saw a half decent coffee bar cafe type place which is good news. They could have made more of an effort with the sign. Maybe we could write to them when it opens and suggest a nicer one. Depends what the owners are like and their target audience. It looked better than a greasy spoon - I could see a real coffee machine in there. We will see. Anyone know when it's opening?
I've peaked thru the papered-up front window and saw a half decent coffee bar cafe type place which is good news. They could have made more of an effort with the sign. Maybe we could write to them when it opens and suggest a nicer one. Depends what the owners are like and their target audience. It looked better than a greasy spoon - I could see a real coffee machine in there. We will see. Anyone know when it's opening?
There's a Kente coffee shop in Streatham. It's reasonably priced, food OK, nothing too upmarket. If this one's similar to the Streatham branch it'll have to really fight to hold its own against Sugahill and Blue Mountain. Keeping the old shop front would have given it some of the edge it'll need to compete. What a missed opportunity.
http://www.yelp.co.uk/biz/kente-coffee-house-london
http://www.yelp.co.uk/biz/kente-coffee-house-london
fishcox wrote:This means I now have to cancel my appointment with my tailor, for my new African print suit.
Gutted.
F***ing hilarious! Me too, oh well, im sure we'll live
Personally i think it looks cheap and nasty, not something i would want for Sydenham.
However if they'd kept the old windows i may have had a completely different initial perception of the business.
I agree totally with Richie.
Im not happy that the shop front has been changed but we have to move on.
We need to encourage new businesses/shops to come to SE26. Sometimes we are not going to like them, but at this time for our country, we have to salute a business wanting to take on a new premises.
If you were a shop keeper looking at SE26 and seeing that a brand new coffee shop was not being used, what would you do??
Im not happy that the shop front has been changed but we have to move on.
We need to encourage new businesses/shops to come to SE26. Sometimes we are not going to like them, but at this time for our country, we have to salute a business wanting to take on a new premises.
If you were a shop keeper looking at SE26 and seeing that a brand new coffee shop was not being used, what would you do??
I'm fuming. Scrub that I'm really angry. There are at least a dozen empty shops with characterless frontages on the highstreet that are suitable for a cafe. This is vandalism. A beautiful - and from what you say - protected frontage has been destroyed. I am going to make sure that someone from the council replies to me and tells me what steps can be taken to prosecute the person who has done this. I certainly won't frequent this shop - whatever it is selling.
Me again. I have filled out a complaint form on the Lewisham Council website. My complaint reference is 63989.
My letter stated:
Complaint Re: 16 Sydenham High Street (formally Machray Chemists now Kente)
I am writing to complain about the removal of the shop frontage at the above address. A beautiful and intact 1930s shop window that was an asset to our highstreet has been removed and replaced with a characterless modern frontage. This is dismaying considering the fact that there are many empty shops on the high street with modern frontage that could have served the requirements of this business.
This is a link to some photographs of the original shop: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevegrind ... 025965041/
I have a number of questions I would like you to answer please:
1. Is this building/shop part of the Sydenham conservation area?
2. Was this glass/frontage protected i.e. listed?
If the glass/frontage was listed/protected/part of a conservation area:
1. Who was responsible for ensuring that a protected frontage/glass was not removed?
2. What action is Lewisham council/the conservation department taking against the person responsible for removing the glass/shop frontage?
I'll make sure that I get the answers to the above questions and I'll share them with you all when I get them.
My letter stated:
Complaint Re: 16 Sydenham High Street (formally Machray Chemists now Kente)
I am writing to complain about the removal of the shop frontage at the above address. A beautiful and intact 1930s shop window that was an asset to our highstreet has been removed and replaced with a characterless modern frontage. This is dismaying considering the fact that there are many empty shops on the high street with modern frontage that could have served the requirements of this business.
This is a link to some photographs of the original shop: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevegrind ... 025965041/
I have a number of questions I would like you to answer please:
1. Is this building/shop part of the Sydenham conservation area?
2. Was this glass/frontage protected i.e. listed?
If the glass/frontage was listed/protected/part of a conservation area:
1. Who was responsible for ensuring that a protected frontage/glass was not removed?
2. What action is Lewisham council/the conservation department taking against the person responsible for removing the glass/shop frontage?
I'll make sure that I get the answers to the above questions and I'll share them with you all when I get them.
It's ironic really, that someone should destroy something as great as the original Mackays signage, and replace it with something they think looks good, when, in fact, what they could have had, was something truly original, and given their premises/business a unique selling point which was truly priceless.
Given that they already have a cafe in St Reatham, it would appear that they are expanding their business, and are looking for a 'corporate identity'.
Its a pity they picked such a shit identity.
They might well know how to make a cup of tea, and put a piece of cake on a plate, but they know chuff all about taste.
In this day and age, with the wonders (and ease of use) of the internet, there is no excuse for not taking into consideration the feelings of the local public, when it comes to issues like this.
I mean, all they needed to was a bit of research, hit on STF, and ask the locals - as has been done elsewhere on here.
Unless I am missing something (and I have no idea whether previous posters on this thread are members of Sydenham Society or not) has anyone from SS done anything about this ?
Alarm bells should have rung when the hoardings first went up, and maybe SS should have been more proactive.
As has been pointed out previously - isnt the shop owned by another,high profile, shop on the high street? Were they not advised that the frontage would be changed? Is the owner of the shop also a member of Sydenham Society?
According to their website, SS has 1,100 members - I cant believe that one of the biggest owners of property on the high street isnt one of them.
Hmmmmm
Given that they already have a cafe in St Reatham, it would appear that they are expanding their business, and are looking for a 'corporate identity'.
Its a pity they picked such a shit identity.
They might well know how to make a cup of tea, and put a piece of cake on a plate, but they know chuff all about taste.
In this day and age, with the wonders (and ease of use) of the internet, there is no excuse for not taking into consideration the feelings of the local public, when it comes to issues like this.
I mean, all they needed to was a bit of research, hit on STF, and ask the locals - as has been done elsewhere on here.
Unless I am missing something (and I have no idea whether previous posters on this thread are members of Sydenham Society or not) has anyone from SS done anything about this ?
Alarm bells should have rung when the hoardings first went up, and maybe SS should have been more proactive.
As has been pointed out previously - isnt the shop owned by another,high profile, shop on the high street? Were they not advised that the frontage would be changed? Is the owner of the shop also a member of Sydenham Society?
According to their website, SS has 1,100 members - I cant believe that one of the biggest owners of property on the high street isnt one of them.
Hmmmmm
Ultimately Lewisham are definetely to blame, they have brought this sh*t upon themselves by having absolutely no control regarding looking after Conservation in the borough, take a look at the desperate state of Forest Hill Library before they did something about it, and the pools, Ladywell pools, Downham Pools, etc, a pattern seems to occur within Lewisham and their incompetency to do the right thing regarding Conservation as well as most of the basic running and maintenance of Council facilities. If they did a better job at looking after things maybe the fact would have been clear and dauned on the owners that 16 Sydenham Road is in a Conservation area making it second nature to the owners when the development of the Chemist was proposed that the frontage needed to remain, this all sounds to me that the owners must not have known, maybe im wrong, we shall see.
Though I find it hard to believe that the owners of the Coffee shop did this out of sheer lack of intelligence as it would add up that Lewisham's Conservation policies are not stringent enough due to this going ahead without the council even noticing, however you would think the owners would have had a peek on STF making them aware we would not want to remove the frontage, if not to have subsequently used this to do some invaluable market research in a time when there is such economic uncertainty.
Starting a business in this area or any area is evidently risky and expensive enough that they would know better than to infringe upon something they would have had to abide by with Lewisham Council that could risk generating fines from the council. Maybe Lewisham arent strict enough.
Lewisham have gone wrong somewhere here as per usual (and its far from being the first time that they have let things get out of hand) because as far as Conservation policy goes in this situation if Lewisham do the right thing that we pay our extortionate taxes for them to do anyway the council will either have to monitor the situation by forcing the owners to replace the old window and indeed the frontage (if it still exists) to the way it was before work commenced or they will have to pay a fine for the amount it costs to put it right including how much the damage has caused. But then again this is Lewisham Council were talking about.
Though I find it hard to believe that the owners of the Coffee shop did this out of sheer lack of intelligence as it would add up that Lewisham's Conservation policies are not stringent enough due to this going ahead without the council even noticing, however you would think the owners would have had a peek on STF making them aware we would not want to remove the frontage, if not to have subsequently used this to do some invaluable market research in a time when there is such economic uncertainty.
Starting a business in this area or any area is evidently risky and expensive enough that they would know better than to infringe upon something they would have had to abide by with Lewisham Council that could risk generating fines from the council. Maybe Lewisham arent strict enough.
Lewisham have gone wrong somewhere here as per usual (and its far from being the first time that they have let things get out of hand) because as far as Conservation policy goes in this situation if Lewisham do the right thing that we pay our extortionate taxes for them to do anyway the council will either have to monitor the situation by forcing the owners to replace the old window and indeed the frontage (if it still exists) to the way it was before work commenced or they will have to pay a fine for the amount it costs to put it right including how much the damage has caused. But then again this is Lewisham Council were talking about.