If you go up to Crystal Palace there are no less than 3 pubs all facing each other at the junction at the corner of Crystal Palace park.
Housing is just as lucrative a prospect up at Crystal Palace and yet as far as I know no-one is trying to turn them into flats – so how come our one decent pub-building in this important 'gateway' area is being threatened? (I know the railway is a pub but its hardly an imposing building is it?)
Maybe they reckon Sydenhamites and Lewisham Council are a soft touch? Are we just going to lie down and let these greedy developers get away with it?
The Greyhound to Close!
I'll happily accept that the car park is built on, and I'd happily accept that some of the more recent additions to the rear of the building could go if necessary.
But I swear I would chain myself to a bulldozer rather than see the rest of the Greyhound demolished!
If I didn't have so little faith in developers and the standard of 'architecture' which are normally witnessed in such developments, I might not be so concerned.
If Milford put together a very exciting proposal for the site with a building that was genuinely worthy of this 'gateway' location, I just *might* be willing to revise my opinion, but I see little to give me such encouragement at present.
Sadly I think the building has been so badly mistreated that it would take quite a significant investment to restore it to former glories.
But I swear I would chain myself to a bulldozer rather than see the rest of the Greyhound demolished!
If I didn't have so little faith in developers and the standard of 'architecture' which are normally witnessed in such developments, I might not be so concerned.
If Milford put together a very exciting proposal for the site with a building that was genuinely worthy of this 'gateway' location, I just *might* be willing to revise my opinion, but I see little to give me such encouragement at present.
Sadly I think the building has been so badly mistreated that it would take quite a significant investment to restore it to former glories.
Weeble, I agree that the car park should be built on - it's a mess, and has been for years. If they dont level the rest of the pub, then what do you suggest ? As you state, it would take a significant investment to restore it to former glory, something that is few and far between these days, when property developers are seen as the best way to make a fast buck
Has anyone been privvy to Milfords plans?
I would really like to see some sort of drawings of what they intend building there, before casting my vote one way or the other.
Has anyone been privvy to Milfords plans?
I would really like to see some sort of drawings of what they intend building there, before casting my vote one way or the other.
I'll be sorry to see the end of The Greyhound having spent many a night there over the last 10 years, although none recently. To be honest the last few times I've been in there it's been aweful...
I think one of the main problems is that a pub is a business and needs to be run as such. I seem to remember reading on these boards a post by Michael Richards explaining why they chose The Dolphin and not any of the other pubs in Sydenham. He said that the Greyhound had fallen into such a state of neglect that it wouldn't be financially viable to take it on as a project.
I would imagine if this is the case attracting new owners, who would be willing to take on the biulding and business, might be problematic. Might the best solution be for Milfords to redevelop the site but incorporating the historical aspects of the building into the new bar/restaurant/cafe on the site? Maybe easier said than done....
As it stands I don't think The Greyhound does Sydenham any credit and I won't mourn it's demise.
I think one of the main problems is that a pub is a business and needs to be run as such. I seem to remember reading on these boards a post by Michael Richards explaining why they chose The Dolphin and not any of the other pubs in Sydenham. He said that the Greyhound had fallen into such a state of neglect that it wouldn't be financially viable to take it on as a project.
I would imagine if this is the case attracting new owners, who would be willing to take on the biulding and business, might be problematic. Might the best solution be for Milfords to redevelop the site but incorporating the historical aspects of the building into the new bar/restaurant/cafe on the site? Maybe easier said than done....
As it stands I don't think The Greyhound does Sydenham any credit and I won't mourn it's demise.
I echo Aidys sentiments.
I spent far too much of the mid 80's in The Greyhound (and too much money) but it was ruined when they ripped the heart out of it, and turned it into a theme pub about whippets (I kid you not).
It had one of the most amazing bars I have ever been in (similar to the Princess Louise in Holborn). From a beautiful London pub, to a dive, in a couple of months. It has never recovered.
As a place which holds some very dear memories to me, I feel I should be doing all I can to save it, but the more I look at it, the less enthusiasm I have about it. In its current state, I think it speaks volumes about the way Sydenham is perceived.
On the way past this morning, I see that there was a police car parked at the entrance to the car park, and the area had been taped off. Nice.
I spent far too much of the mid 80's in The Greyhound (and too much money) but it was ruined when they ripped the heart out of it, and turned it into a theme pub about whippets (I kid you not).
It had one of the most amazing bars I have ever been in (similar to the Princess Louise in Holborn). From a beautiful London pub, to a dive, in a couple of months. It has never recovered.
As a place which holds some very dear memories to me, I feel I should be doing all I can to save it, but the more I look at it, the less enthusiasm I have about it. In its current state, I think it speaks volumes about the way Sydenham is perceived.
On the way past this morning, I see that there was a police car parked at the entrance to the car park, and the area had been taped off. Nice.
The worst thing to see with pubs closing down is them being left for ages only to attract squatters and youths hanging around, smashed windows and graffiti everywhere - leading to the windows and doors being boarded up with wood, or metal, or even bricked up.
Derelict pubs soon become eyesores no matter how long they have delighted and highlighted their surroundings.
I've been sad to see many pubs close down due to their popularity, architecture and history, but on seeing them a few months/years after closing, sitting there to rot away, I'd rather keep the good memories and not see the leftover sorry remains of something once so glorious.
So long as any development doesn't become an eyesore itself.
Derelict pubs soon become eyesores no matter how long they have delighted and highlighted their surroundings.
I've been sad to see many pubs close down due to their popularity, architecture and history, but on seeing them a few months/years after closing, sitting there to rot away, I'd rather keep the good memories and not see the leftover sorry remains of something once so glorious.
So long as any development doesn't become an eyesore itself.
Last edited by Eagleeye on 9 Aug 2007 10:33, edited 1 time in total.
I had wondered what the original bar was like. That's so tragic - I bet if it still had it's original features people would be falling over themselves to convert it into a gastropub.fishcox wrote:It had one of the most amazing bars I have ever been in (similar to the Princess Louise in Holborn). From a beautiful London pub, to a dive, in a couple of months. It has never recovered.
Juwlz - much as I dislike it, the costs are bound to figure in whatever happens to the Greyhound. Milford own it, we can't change that and they're only ever going to choose a financially lucrative option. That said I can't imagine that a sympathetic refit of the interior is entirely out of the question.
Weeble,
What I am trying to say is Milford's are surely going to spend the minimum amount of money possible for the maximum possible profit unless public pressure forces the council to intervene in some way and demand a high quality development, whether the Greyhound goes or not.
by the way aidy-b
What you said about Michael from the Dolphin is the opposite of what I heard. I heard that he wanted the Greyhound in preference over the Dolphin but someone got in there before they had the chance. I would love to know which of these is correct.
What I am trying to say is Milford's are surely going to spend the minimum amount of money possible for the maximum possible profit unless public pressure forces the council to intervene in some way and demand a high quality development, whether the Greyhound goes or not.
by the way aidy-b
What you said about Michael from the Dolphin is the opposite of what I heard. I heard that he wanted the Greyhound in preference over the Dolphin but someone got in there before they had the chance. I would love to know which of these is correct.
Last edited by Juwlz on 9 Aug 2007 11:22, edited 1 time in total.
The original fixtures and fittings have probably been shipped over to the East coast of the United States, where they will have been lovingly restored, probably at considerable cost, and a whole pub built around them. Say what you like about our American cousins, but they care more about our history than we do, and will actually put their money where their mouth is.
I dont want to digress too much, but I will.
My mum and dad, both batting on, were born and brought up in Salford, where there was a beautiful old Elizabethan building, called Agecroft Hall. It fell into ruin, and they played in it as kids. In true English shortsightedness, the various councils refused to put any money into it, and it became totally derelict. it was spotted and bought by an American, and shipped in its entirity to Richmond Virginia, where they visited it a few years back, and told me it was surreal to see a building they had not seen for 60 odd years, in such incredible condition and surroundings. To see the sort of thing they did, Google 'Agecroft Hall', and be amazed. Makes you proud to be British, eh?
Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox.
I dont want to digress too much, but I will.
My mum and dad, both batting on, were born and brought up in Salford, where there was a beautiful old Elizabethan building, called Agecroft Hall. It fell into ruin, and they played in it as kids. In true English shortsightedness, the various councils refused to put any money into it, and it became totally derelict. it was spotted and bought by an American, and shipped in its entirity to Richmond Virginia, where they visited it a few years back, and told me it was surreal to see a building they had not seen for 60 odd years, in such incredible condition and surroundings. To see the sort of thing they did, Google 'Agecroft Hall', and be amazed. Makes you proud to be British, eh?
Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox.
There are lots of people in Sydenham that have lived here for years and when you point out something beautiful they will say 'oh you should have seen it 30 years ago it was much, much better.'
I find that not having seen what it was like before is often a good thing because you appreciate the good things it for how they are now without that appreciation being ruined by too much knowledge of even better stuff that's been and gone
When you're surrounded by stuff all the time you stop noticing it after a while.
I never knew there was an amazing bar in the Greyhound once and I am gutted to hear that it was there and is now gone but that doesn't mean tear down the whole building because its not quite as good as it once was.
By the way , that's very interesting about the Americans fishcox - they know the value of history.
I find that not having seen what it was like before is often a good thing because you appreciate the good things it for how they are now without that appreciation being ruined by too much knowledge of even better stuff that's been and gone
When you're surrounded by stuff all the time you stop noticing it after a while.
I never knew there was an amazing bar in the Greyhound once and I am gutted to hear that it was there and is now gone but that doesn't mean tear down the whole building because its not quite as good as it once was.
By the way , that's very interesting about the Americans fishcox - they know the value of history.
As someone who has lived here for years I remember the mahogany bar (which was at right angles to the door, giving two bars - public and saloon), and the the fabulous tiled room, safe (for the time being) under lock and key. The original bar went in the refit which was done around 2000 by Arena pubs who gave us the new bar and painted the pub turquoise.
I profoundly believe that the pub could be smartened up relatively easily -the reason Milford want to demolish and replace it with a modern bar (like the Two Halves) is to maximise the space they have for development. Architect friends have told me that the pub could be refurbished relatively cheaply; the 'recycling' of old buildings is also a more sustainable and environmentally friendly approach than demolition and new-build (which of course will happen in the car park).
I profoundly believe that the pub could be smartened up relatively easily -the reason Milford want to demolish and replace it with a modern bar (like the Two Halves) is to maximise the space they have for development. Architect friends have told me that the pub could be refurbished relatively cheaply; the 'recycling' of old buildings is also a more sustainable and environmentally friendly approach than demolition and new-build (which of course will happen in the car park).
As someone who once worked in the Greyhound back in the 80's I can confirm that the bar was indeed a work of art.
I have hardly frequented it since, as returning makes me despair.
The bar area at the back was always in use for either private parties or live bands. The Landlord new how to run a London Pub.
Even though times have changed and the greyhound has been pretty much destroyed I'd still be devastated to see it go. Not only is it a focal point for Sydenham, it's one of a few remaining pubs left in our area.
I'm not sure there's anyway to stop it's total destruction but am willing to help try.
I have hardly frequented it since, as returning makes me despair.
The bar area at the back was always in use for either private parties or live bands. The Landlord new how to run a London Pub.
Even though times have changed and the greyhound has been pretty much destroyed I'd still be devastated to see it go. Not only is it a focal point for Sydenham, it's one of a few remaining pubs left in our area.
I'm not sure there's anyway to stop it's total destruction but am willing to help try.
Jules, did you work in there when Jim was the landlord? I had a good few mates who worked behind the bar from 1985-1987. We all worked for NatWest (and were not allowed to go overdrawn) so Jim would cash post-dated cheques for us when we were short before payday.
It was a Taylor Walker House back then, and it was Whitbreads (who bought out the Firkin Brewery) who first ruined it.
It was a Taylor Walker House back then, and it was Whitbreads (who bought out the Firkin Brewery) who first ruined it.
The Americans have no history, and they are ashamed of it. When I suggest to an American that they should work on their family tree, and I can help them with their English/Irish ancestors, they seem to always get pissed off!By the way , that's very interesting about the Americans fishcox - they know the value of history.
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Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
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The Save the Greyhound petition now has over 500 signatures.
Apart from Kirkdale Bookshop, it is also to be found in Makepeace Chemist, The Pharmacy, M&D Furnishers, Paulro's and Whites Pet Centre on one side of the road, and in Well Being and Smart Chaps on the other. Sema's Cafe handed in two sheets of signatures before they closed for annual holidays.
Please make sure you have signed it and get your family, friends and neighbours to sign it, too!
Apart from Kirkdale Bookshop, it is also to be found in Makepeace Chemist, The Pharmacy, M&D Furnishers, Paulro's and Whites Pet Centre on one side of the road, and in Well Being and Smart Chaps on the other. Sema's Cafe handed in two sheets of signatures before they closed for annual holidays.
Please make sure you have signed it and get your family, friends and neighbours to sign it, too!