The pub on the kirkdale roundabout

[G-Man]

People shouldn't really be driving to the pub, should they?

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Some people will go to the pub to socialise, come with mates and give them a lift, or bring their kids, or just not drink. Also, quite a few brewers are working on producing beer below 3% to avoid duty, which will mean you could have a couple of pints through an evening without being over the limit. Although I have no idea what the limit is as I don't drive.

G-man

[Annie]

People shouldn't really be driving to the pub, should they?

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Even if they are coming to the pub for a meal and an orange drink?

people drive past a place and think FOOD! then they think PARKING!

[ALIB]

Doesn't London have excellent Public Transport ? it is adjacent Sydenham station and on several bus routes.
Locals can walk

[gillyjp]

It will be lovely to see it open, but, what about parking for non Sydenhamites?

There is no parking in Crystal Palace but the pubs and restaurants there seem to be packed weekdays and weekends. We just hop on a bus if we fancy having a meal and a drink there.

[Annie]

Ok you win, I cant be bothered!

[leenewham]

Parking is an issue in town centres, it is everywhere.

But plenty of pubs survive in London where parking is difficult from East Dulwich (lots of pubs, difficult parking) to Forest Hill to Beckenham (possibly more difficult to park than Sydenham) and Crystal Palace (although somehow I always manage to get a space there as if by magic).

I don't think it's an issue with the Greyhound.

[Annie]

The pub is a bit isolated from any shops that are any good though Lee,
all I was trying to say is-
if I didnt live in this area and was travelling through,hungry and thirsty,I would not bother to stop as there is no parking within the pub grounds, and I would have to drive round to find a parking place,not easy during the weekend,I would probably just drive through the area.

[dickp]

I think most pubs in the country would be very pleased to sit a few yards away from a major train station.

I think there are more than enough thirsty locals to make it viable. Especially considerng that, for some us at the top end of sydenham, the only alternatives are in penge, crystal palace or forest hill

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[leenewham]

The pub is a bit isolated from any shops that are any good though Lee,
all I was trying to say is-
if I didnt live in this area and was travelling through,hungry and thirsty,I would not bother to stop as there is no parking within the pub grounds, and I would have to drive round to find a parking place,not easy during the weekend,I would probably just drive through the area.

Hi Annie,

well, I"m sure the Kirkdale Bookshop will disagree, or Sainsbury's who will be in the greyhound building, or Billings which is just down the road etc. Most urban pubs I'd suggest rely on non car custom in London especially. I wouldn't worry about it. I'm sure antic have done their research (infact I know they have, along with another pub and Sainsbury's, teh Co-operative & Tesco they are probably the only businesses in Sydenham that have done their research).

No supermarket would open in any area without knowing demographics, footfall etc. They always research an area.

[Annie]

No offence intended towards the Book shop,its a great place,but If I were driving through Sydenham ,not knowing it was there,I would keep driving!

[leenewham]

I think you have hit the nail on the head for most high streets Annie. It's interesting that Sydenham seems to have little fotfall from the amount of traffic that passes through. There isn't anything bar a few shops that would make a passing motorist want to stop in the way that you may in East Dulwich or other areas.

And it's got more to do that just parking provision.

I believe Antic will make a great job of the Greyhound as they have with all their pubs. The Albert in Deptford seemed to draw people in that you would never have associated with the area and is stilla great pub. It's great news that they are doing it up, although Acorn still say it's up for sale.

[Annie]

I am hopeful Lee that it will all look great, despite my reservations about the parking issue.

[Weeble]

Am sure more parking would be an advantage, but I'm also quite sure the pub can be very successful without any parking. Glad that work is now underway: when the whole development is finished I think this area of Sydenham is going to be substantially improved!

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[marymck]

I only drive into Sydenham when I'm in too much of a rush, or have too much shopping to carry, to climb the hill to the top (Mount Ash Road bit) of Kirkdale. The only bus we have up here on the hill doesn't go into Sydenham High Street (though it does go to Forest Hill & Bell Green).

I very much hope the car park (behind the pet shop - is that Girton Road?) will continue to be free, because - and I know the majority don't agree with me on this, so I apologise for being the lone voice and yes I know it's unreasonable and a politcally incorrect thing for me to say, but - the closure of Queensthorpe to through traffic is going to make it very, very hard to turn round.

So if we lose the free parking, then I'm awfully sorry to say that - unless I have a lot of spare time or not a lot of shopping to carry - I'm more likely to carry on to Sainsbury's at Bell Green.

[simon]

marymck, the only plans for Girton Road car park that I am aware of is to put a gate across the Sydenham Road exit. Which has its advantages and disadvantages in my opinion.
What I cant see is why closing Queensthorpe Road ids going to make turning around any more difficult?

[leenewham]

I agree Mary. But why would we lose free parking in Girton Road? Are there plans for this' It would be utter stupidity. Only if it is constantly full (which is isn't, not whenever I've been in there) and shoppers can't get a space should they even consider charging, and even then only after a survey on shopping and parking behavior carried out.

I also agree about Queensthorpe Road, although for different reasons. Now it's between a bank and a funeral parlour I see no value in closing the road for a pocket park. If we had attracted a restaurant to the old curtain shop and the pocket park could have been used for al fresco dining then it could have been fantastic. Sadly that opportunity has gone.

I'm sure those living in the Thorpes will disagree though, which I understand, although I'm sure it may just push more traffic onto the other roads around the Thorpes.

[marymck]

What I cant see is why closing Queensthorpe Road ids going to make turning around any more difficult?

I know I'm deeply unpopular for saying this. But purely from my point of view driving from the direction of upper Kirkdale, then if you're lucky enough to get a parking spot on the high street, or one of the few at the entrance to Queensthorpe (which of course are going anyway) I then do the (really bad) thing of driving into Queensthorpe, along Earlsthorpe, right on Mayow Road & right at the traffic lights. That way I don't have to force my way through the traffic to do a right turn onto the traffic lights. (When I had my classic Mercedes, other drivers would smile and wave me through .... sadly now that I've changed my car I've instantly become an invisible older lady in a Honda.)

I don't think I'm alone in taking this route and of course most people who do this will just turn into Silverdale and along Bishopsthorpe anyway.

Hopefully as part of the new scheme we'll get more (properly policed) disabled parking on the high street for those who truly can't manage the extra walking.

Of course, as long as the Girton Road car park doesn't charge, then this won't be an issue for me, given that I want to turn left if coming from Girton Road back onto the hihg street. (Girton Road to the high street being a "no right turn".)

And I can of course quite understand why the residents of the Thorpes prefer a pocket park to being used as a dog leg.

why would we lose free parking in Girton Road? Are there plans for this' It would be utter stupidity.

There was talk of charging for Girton Road. But I haven't heard about this for a while, so hopefully the threat has gone away.

Of course if I could get a bus from the town centre to upper Kirkdale then I'd not need to take the car anyway!

[stuart]

There was talk of charging for Girton Road. But I haven't heard about this for a while, so hopefully the threat has gone away.

Would it be good and encouraging for shopping on Sydenham Road if they did charge for Girton Road but made the first hour free? That would stop it being blocked by people who leave their cars all day and make better use of the space and relieve the pressure on the road allowing more disabled spaces and better flow of traffic.

Stuart

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[Rachael]

I use the Girton Road car park at various times of day and have never found it full, although on occasion I have had to park in the overflow area.

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[marymck]

Would it be good and encouraging for shopping on Sydenham Road if they did charge for Girton Road but made the first hour free? That would stop it being blocked by people who leave their cars all day and make better use of the space and relieve the pressure on the road allowing more disabled spaces and better flow of traffic.

Well I have to disagree. I've never seen it full and I don't recall anyone else who's posted on this thread has reported finding it full.

Allowing only one free hour would discriminate against hairdressers, restaurants and other services. Also, just going in and out of more than a couple of shops can also easily take you over an hour ... never mind the time wasted in the post office queue!

One of the reasons I don't shop regularly at M&S in Beckenham is because they now only allow one hour's free parking. It used to be two hours. Now you have to pay £2 for that extra hour.

I used to park in M&S, walk down The Drive to the bank, loop round past Boots & WH Smith, left at the traffic lights & back to M&S to do my shopping. I could do all this in two hours, plus popping into little shops en route. I especially liked browsing in the bookshop. I can't do any of that now.

It was a good stretch of the legs too. Now I pay 40p to park at Beckenham Sainsbury's just to go to the bank (it's my closest branch, there isn't one in Sydenham, Forest Hill or Penge). I may or may not drive to M&S on my way back home - but more usually I just pop into Sainsbury's. I also very, very rarely now go into Beckenham bookshop and the nearby chemist, which both used to be part of my regular browse/shop.

So I think a time limit (other than 24 hours to stop car dumping) on the Girton Road car park would be very bad news for the service industries, plus those shops (including Kirkdale bookshop) that are at the other end of the high street.