Going over old ground - The Hound that is Grey

[Whiftoff]

just get it rebuilt as a pub that we can start using. A decent pub that close to the station is bound to do well. If the state of the morning trains are anything to go by then loads of people have moved here recently. Can't really see the appeal of it being an open space/pocket park. Who want to sit that close to a busy roundabout?

[Tim Lund]

Well, G-man, I at least am feeling a little more upbeat about this, because it feels as if people might be moving on. Lee's idea of putting forward some options of where we go from here, rather than focusing on the minutiae of planning, is progress. Similarly this suggestion from a recent new poster:

Admin - is there any way to create a Pinterest board so we could share pics / design ideas? Would feel more positive / proactive than debating back and forth between two approaches which is what normally seems to happen on here. Especially as ultimately we all want the same thing - to see Sydenham thrive...

I am not committed one way or the other on this, so I don't see one view prevailing as victory, or putting forward alternatives as defeatism. Actually, it is people - new people - being engaged. Are you trying to shut them down?

So let's have that Pinterst board, and let it develop into two or three alternative visions for this space - but it's not just about visuals. We also have to consider how the space would be managed, what it would cost, and whose buy-ins would be required. If our pocket parks aren't being properly used, this is a reasonable concern, but why is this?

[Edited to correct unfortunate typo in the word shut ]

[Tim Lund]

just get it rebuilt as a pub that we can start using. A decent pub that close to the station is bound to do well. If the state of the morning trains are anything to go by then loads of people have moved here recently. Can't really see the appeal of it being an open space/pocket park. Who want to sit that close to a busy roundabout?

I think this is a fair point, so I googled images for 'pavement cafe London' looking for somewhere with people eating outside but with traffic in close proximity. This is what I came up with



from Chiswick, but I'm sure someone with a better knowledge of urban design and setting could come up with something better. The space currently occupied by the Greyhound is much bigger, so people would not need to be so close to the traffic, and there'd also be the opportunity for some screening. OTOH, it is a fairly busy round about, and having a lorry crawling past with badly tuned exhaust would not be pleasant.

Nonetheless, with the general prospect of looking across to an attractive range of shops such as the Kirkdale Bookshop and the Blue Mountain cafe, there has to be potential here.

[leenewham]

Can't we just focus on rebuilding the pub rather than this talk about making it into 'a space'.

Why not focus on making good use of the dull paved over roads (aka Lewisham's idea of a pocket park) and improving them before we go about making another at the expense of a possible pub?

[Whiftoff]

I been living here for over 7 years and in the that time the greyhound has always been boarded up. Never known such a faff. Just rebuild it so people can start enjoying it.

[harrym]

Or... just knock it down and put it out of its misery!

There are plenty of other empty premises near the roundabout that would make great drinking venues if converted with thought and care.

[Whiftoff]

Trying to get to the point where they could legally knock it down would probably take another 5 years of faff. Why not stick to the plan and get it sorted asap.

[Nigel]

Well made points - pocket parks? We have 2 - very nice but they have not found their purpose yet.
Open space ? Why.
Tim's cafe rouge ? Time wasting ,diverting and pointless - how do you argue too small for pub but large enough for a third rate French themed chain cafe?.
It is simple - keep to the plan , rebuild and let's put our energy and ideas , not least of all Tim's into a great pub . Went to the Ivy House (London's first community pub ) on Sunday - live music great atmosphere and they stocked BrockleyBrewery bitter. Imagine the Greyhound a year on - simple pub food , Our very own Alex Carter doing an evening of song and Late Knight's beer on gravity . ohh! Suit you sir (and madam)

A very good evening
Nigel

[G-Man]

Such sense Nigel. The Ivyhouse is an excellent example. They only serve London beers. Or at least the majority. Wonderful.

Imagine a fantastic pub. Simple burgers or similar selling excellent craft beers. It's what we need - and those elements make a fantastic boozer. And to have a pub like this doesn't take much space.

G-man

[Tim Lund]

It is simple - keep to the plan , rebuild and let's put our energy and ideas , not least of all Tim's into a great pub . Went to the Ivy House (London's first community pub ) on Sunday - live music great atmosphere and they stocked BrockleyBrewery bitter. Imagine the Greyhound a year on - simple pub food ,

It may be worth looking into how the Ivy House was saved.

The community right to bid created a six month window for a community groups to come up with the funds to buy the pub, which had been put on the market for £750,000. Led by a local solicitor, they came up with the money thanks principally to loans totalling £550,000 from the Architectural Heritage Fund. Another £142,600 was raised from 371 community shareholders, allowing them to buy the pub at an increased price of £810,000.

There are many differences between that and where we are with the Greyhound, the main one being that owners aren't offering it for sale, so the starting point should be to find out a price at which they would. Second, equally important, is to have an idea of how much it would cost to rebuild. I suspect that Purelake would be happy to sell for the cost of a half of mild, so in terms of numbers, the second point is more important. Anyone know a quantity surveyor?

Community spirit is great, and not just for being able to raise nearly £150K in six months, but let's also look at the serious numbers.

[G-Man]

I think the main point Nigel is raising is not necessarily purchasing the pub but the fact that it is a fantastic pub that was resurrected, instead of being knocked down. It's just a good model of how a good local boozer can work. Community support - good beer - simple food.

G-Man

[Tim Lund]

I think the main point Nigel is raising is not necessarily purchasing the pub but the fact that it is a fantastic pub that was resurrected, instead of being knocked down. It's just a good model of how a good local boozer can work. Community support - good beer - simple food.

G-Man

Indeed it could, but it's banging our heads against a brick wall to insist it has to happen in this specific location, in this specific way.

[Eagle]

G Man

It was never a fantastic Pub in all the time I recall when I started drinklng in 60's. Rarely visited it .

Tended to attract the low life and not hot on real beers.

[Tim Lund]

G Man

It was never a fantastic Pub in all the time I recall when I started drinklng in 60's. Rarely visited it .

Tended to attract the low life and not hot on real beers.

In defense of G Man - that is not very relevant now.

[blakewho]

Eagle, there were not many pubs anywhere that were hot on real beers during the 1960s- early 1980s. But times have certainly changed. Many pubs which I wouldn't have gone in with a military escort 20 years ago are now wonderful places to be.

[G-Man]

Well Eagle I promise you that the Ivy House is now a wonderful community pub with absolutely brilliant beers.

Tim. Thanks for your support but I have to say to keep harping on that we shouldn't keep trying to resurrect the Greyhound is a bit rubbish.. We should. A wrongdoing has been done and needs to be fixed. And Cobbs corner is the perfect place to have a very successful boozer in the Greyhound. So, for this thread lets keep that 'save our pub angle and for once keep things positive?

Cheers

G-Man

[Nigel]

Tim
Should any of us find ourselves with a bonfire out of control we will certainly know who to call ...
I think everyone else understood my little reverie - it wouldn't have to be a community pub of course - but those simple ingredients would be a winner for many of us .
I like to think of you in a future reborn Greyhound , with a pint of mild , trying to calculate why it shouldn't be working but somehow is .....
A very good evening
Nigel

[Tim Lund]

Tim
I like to think of you in a future reborn Greyhound , with a pint of mild , trying to calculate why it shouldn't be working but somehow is .....

Well, stranger things have happened, and if I was there, I would certainly want to work out why I had been mistaken. But on a point of detail, it would only be a half - or cappucino if they did them.

[harrym]

Right forum fans, this is my last thought for the thread as reading it tends to frustrate me but... have people not noticed The Greyhound of any historical or architectural significance has already been lost?! You can't save something that doesn't exist. And anyone with half an eye for aesthetics can see a building - any building - looks mad in that spot.

Yes pubs can be great. Yes a community pub with real ales and good food in Sydenham could be great, but I'm pretty sure the site of the old Greyhound isn't it.

For all those who feel so passionately about it why not concentrate your efforts on finding another location to start such such a thing? Would happen much faster than anything at Cobbs Corner is likely to, I'm sure.

Or put your efforts into getting Purelake to compensate Sydenham for this disaster - enough bad publicity might force action.

Much as I think a rebuild would be a big mistake, pretty much any result would be better than the status quo.

[Tim Lund]

So, for this thread lets keep that 'save our pub angle and for once keep things positive?

Cheers

G-Man

Talking of angles, what is positive depends on how you look at things