Street drinkers and heroin users

[digime2007]

Bag lady, thanks for your insight into this issue.

I wouldn't favour any action that would marginalise these people. I'm saying we need to find a solution that would help everyone.

You can't find a solution though until you admit that there is a problem. That's the issue I have with Bensonby's denial. It's not liberal and compassionate; it's turning a blind eye to a serious issue that we have a social responsibility to address.

[Tim Lund]

While looking for reports detailing cuts, I found this coming up to Mayor & Cabinet Wednesday evening:

12.3 The 2 major recommendations being made are to implement an all
borough drinking control zone for a period of 6 months and to review
this, whilst also identifying and implementing designated drinking areas
for the street drinking population, which would be self managed and
acceptable behaviour agreements made with the groups.

[bigbadwolf]

identifying and implementing designated drinking areas for the street drinking population, which would be self managed and acceptable behaviour agreements made with the groups.

Jesus wept.

If that's the best solution Lewisham council can bother to try and sneak through, then I'll be expecting a full refund for all the council tax they've had off me.

Seriously, the only outcome I can invisage from that fudged proposal is that they'll find somewhere for people who need help to drink themselves to death on the condition that if they keep the noise down, don't shit on the pavement and try not to eat the local wildlife then it's business as usual. All legally bound by a weak set of contracts that in reality won't be adhered to let alone enforced.

If I were in charge they'd all be herded into a holding pen, their alcohol would be confiscated and they'd be stripped naked and hosed down with freezing cold water whilst their clothes were burnt. They'd then embark on a period of sobering up whilst recieving counselling so as to prepare themselves for a new beginning once they're released from Gulag bigbadwolf.

Na zdorovye!

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Expletive deleted by Admin

[maestro]

Confirmation here of what LBC are intending to do with a similar problem at Rushey Green.........

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/8267048./

[bigbadwolf]

I've got the perfect suggestion for a specified drinking area where the louts that doss out the front of Lewisham hospital will fit in nicely. And would rapidly adapt to their new surroundings.

Landfill.

[Robin Orton]

I wish 'bigbadwolf' wouldn't use expressions like 'Jesus ... wept' in his posts. That sort of language is offensive and bullying. I know for a fact it puts off people who, like me. want to use this forum to discuss local issues in a friendly and constructive way.

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Expletive deleted by Admin

[mummycat]

..

[digime2007]

Hamsterdam?

[michael]

I wish 'bigbadwolf' wouldn't use expressions like 'Jesus ... wept' in his posts. That sort of language is offensive and bullying.

If this is 'offensive and bullying' then perhaps you might understand how non-Christians feel when they turn up to civic events such as hustings only to find that they are part of a congregation praying to Jesus.

Should I also regard the hustings as an act of 'bullying' on the part of Churches Together in Sydenham and Forest Hill against non-Christians, including a number of our parliamentary candidates? I know for a fact it puts off people who, like me, want to engage in the democratic process.

See http://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.ph ... 4#pid24884 for previous discussion on this issue, and my apologies for getting in the way of the street drinking discussion.

[bigbadwolf]

Post deleted by Admin

[leenewham]

Q. Why is "Jesus Wept" offensive? Isn't it a term lifted directly from the Bible?

Anyway, I agree with Mummycat, some of the language from the street drinkers is terrible (and I thought being drunk and disorderly was an offense...Bensonby, has this changed?), but soon the PFC (Penge Food Centre) will grace our town so I presume these people will have to move on.

What is clear is that these people need help. They may or may not want it, but they need it.

What is also clear is that they do make the high street a less inviting place to shop, which is the primary function of the high street. The council is spending £5million of taxpayers money to make it a nicer environment to shop in. If you don't move the street drinkers on to another location off the High Street this money is not looking like it is well spent.

There has to be a balance between helping people like the street drinkers, creating a better place for local business owners to trade, a nice, safe, attractive environment for people to shop and to ensure that Sydenham is well placed to benefit from the Overground line, the high street improvements and all the other investment going into the area.

[chrisj1948]

Q. Why is "Jesus Wept" offensive? Isn't it a term lifted directly from the Bible?

As originally posted, before admin sanitized it, there was a word present which was NOT directly from the Bible

Regards
Chris

[admin]

And Chris - go stand in the corner for the irregular use of the letter Z!

[bigbadwolf]

As originally posted, before admin sanitized it, there was a word present which was NOT directly from the Bible.

Quite so, Chris.

Robin, can you find it in your heart to forgive me for including verse from the Qur'an in my recent, exclamating tirade?

[admin]

OK folks - this topic is on streetdrinkers or thereabouts. Discussions on comparative religions is best done in the Pub methinks. BBW/Robin - do battle by starting a new thread there if you wish.

Admin

[bensonby]

Yes, I am deeply offended.

Unfortuntately the street drinkers and heroin users use a much worse language that I can tolerate when walking down the street with my children.

It would be an ideal world if we could censor everyone we find unbearable, but we are not living in an ideal world are we?

(and I thought being drunk and disorderly was an offense...Bensonby, has this changed?),

Indeed, there are several offences that these people may be committing on a regular basis:

1. Being drunk in a public place (s.12 of the Licensing Act 1872)
2. Drunk and disorderly (s.91 of the Criminal Justice ACt 1967)
3. Using threatening, abusive words or disorderly behaviour within sight or hearing of a person likely to be caused harassment alarm or distress (s.5 of the Public Order Act 1986).

not to mention any drugs offences if, indeed, they are taking a controlled drug.

If they are doing any of the above and it bothers you or you feel something should be done then call the police, ask for the matter to be dealt with by arrest/report for summons/Penalty notice and give the police a statement.

As I've argued many times before there are ways for dealing with these people (if they break the law) that can be done through existing frameworks - not through any NIMBYish anti-liberal blunt instruments. But their behaviour needs reporting and people need to be willing to give statements: otherwise the police will walk past them (as they most probably wont be fighting/swearing/shouting when the police go past on routine patrols).

[chrisj1948]

And Chris - go stand in the corner for the irregular use of the letter Z!

For many years I struggled to maintain traditional English usage; I never split infinitives, was conscientious in the application of the apostrophe, and avoided Americanisms. It was a struggle. Then my wife and a daughter became 'apostrophe fundamentalists'; a position which, like all fundamentalism, can become very tedious to live with unless you share the zeal. I began to fear that I might appear to suffer from the same taint. Since English was, until the last couple of hundred years, essentially a spoken language without established spelling or grammar, I decided that what mattered was that one's words should not jar if read out loud. As to the 's' and 'z'; my browser and word processor, despite being told to use 'British English', persist in redlining the UK usage. I no longer care enough to fight against them. They will allow me to use Americanizations, but not Americanisations.

In sadness
Chris

[Robin Orton]

I do not believe that 'sanitize' (or 'civilize', 'Americanize' etc) is an Americanism. It is the preferred spelling of the Oxford English Dictionary and of the (British) Modern Humanities Research Association style guide (much used in academia).

[Chris Best]

Just to say that at the Mayor and Cabinet meeting the Mayor approved plans to trial a borough-wide Drinking Control Zone (DCZ). Before the pilot can be put in place, Lewisham Council must conduct a public consultation so that people have an opportunity to express their views.

The DCZ is not a ban on alcohol consumption in a public place, and does not make drinking in public an offence, but a measure that can assist in tackling problematic street drinking linked to anti-social behaviour - as the report highlights one of the hotspots is in Sydenham. The intention of the DCZ is to provide police with a tool to address alcohol related disorder in a quick and effective way. Failure to comply with a request from the Police to hand over alcohol can result in arrest and/or a fine of up to £500.

The DCZ would be reviewed following a 6-month trial period. The difficult issue of anti-social behaviour brought about by street drinking needs to be tackled and the implementation of a pilot borough-wide DCZ will enable us to review its effectiveness and look at our options, once the results have been analysed at the end of the pilot.

Given the differing views please take part in the Drinking Control Zone consultation on http://www.lewisham.gov.uk and click on the active consultations section on the homepage.

Alternatively, email communitysafety@lewisham.gov.uk .

[multisync]

On two occasions recently I have left my sons house to catch the 202 bus on both occasions I have seen street drinkers catch this bus,one always tries "the rear exit"to get on free his colleagues get on cans in hand and travel to there destination being somewhere in Wells park road.The rear exit traveller gives everyone a strange look and carries on with his journey.SHOULD ANYONE DARE TO QUESTION HIM!! I feel this is disgusting.Is it down to the bus driver or who?