Sydenham School major demolition and reconstruction

[Tim Lund]

Tim
Are you suggesting Lewisham in future will default on its debts.

Not really - it's a possibility, but very remote, and is subsidiary to the wider question "How Should the UK Default". The current situation is that central government will not allow any local government to default, the quid pro quo for which being that the Treasury controls rigidly what and how local governments can borrow. Like Newham, Lewisham receives a large discretionary grant from the central government each year; without this Lewisham would certainly default. PFIs and BSF may not be sensible ways of financing anything, but they are forced on Lewisham, so it is hard to blame Lewisham for using them. What pressure there is on Lewisham to spend its money wisely does not therefore come from market forces - the fear of default - but from instructions from on high; in this way Lewisham is just like an operating division of some large company.

The issue is more the possible collateral damage which might be inflicted on Lewisham as the Treasury tries to control its debts in the decades to come. If we think of 'debts' loosely as payments people feel central government ought to make, in the way we might speak of someone's 'debt' to society, then 'debts' could include the discretionary grants boroughs like Lewisham have come to expect - and we are already seeing the collateral damage. This is because these are not strict legal debts, and so are not so hard to 'default' on. Other debts, e.g. borrowings on the financial markets, and the terms and conditions of agreements with PFI and BSF financing partners, are well defined contracts, and defaulting on these would be a serious legal matter. That is why the people who benefit from Lewisham's customary spending - the old, the sick, the vulnerable - will get shafted before these ever so helpful financial institutions who are helping rebuild Sydenham School. Precisely who suffers most will depend on incalculable politicking, in which more or less well informed groups fight for their own interest and those of the people they are responsible for.

So, seriously, we don't need to worry about Lewisham defaulting.

[Eagle]

I am not worried about Lewisham defaulting as may be only way out of horrendous debts.

We are lucky to have a Government who gives generously to the borough , I just worry that it cannot continue.

[Alex Feakes]

Speaking as a governor of the school and as the local councillor, I'm very pleased the project is going ahead, and I hope it receives planning permission.

Very briefly on the financing: Building Schools for the Future is the name of the programme, not the financing mechanism - there were a range of different financing and building methods used for different projects in the programme across the country, and indeed the borough, including PFI. The works at Sydenham School do not involve a PFI. The money for the Sydenham project comes ultimately from the UK government, and not from borrowing by Lewisham. The borough also encourages the use of local contractors and labour in the building works.

More generally, the financing of local government is in the throes of change. Accompanying a reduction in central government grants to local authorities has been a relaxation of 'ring-fencing' of grants for specific purposes, with the intention of allowing more local determination of spending priorities. The next few years will see changes to the business rate regime, and possibly Council Tax as well.

Local authorities can borrow from the money markets, but the constraints, accountablity and transparency of their borrowings is somewhat greater than that of central government. For example, each new borrowing should have an identified income stream or savings stream for repayments. Most local authories borrow money through the Public Works Loan Board, which is a bit like a clearing house for public sector debts which has the advantage of association with the central government's credit rating. This means that public sector borrowing is, in general, less flexible but cheaper than much private sector financing.

[marymck]

I haven't had time to look at the plans yet, I'm afraid, but can we hope for some adult education evening classes?

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[sisterofwookie]

I went to the school and my tutor room was on the top floor of the 60's block, the building was shabby back then, I recently revisited the school with my daughter and it looks really run down in stark comparison with the other plush rebuilt schools in the Lewisham area.

Re cooking –

I was taught Home Economics (cooking) by the aptly named Ms Honey & Ms Plumb! I never learnt the key skills that I would associate with cooking at school this was done by my mother and nan.

I am all for the rebuild.

[marymck]

I was taught Home Economics (cooking) by the aptly named Ms Honey & Ms Plumb!

What delicious Camberwick Green type names ... you couldn't make it up!

I can't remember my cookery teacher's name ... just the sting from when she slapped my face for asking when we'd get to cook something we'd want to eat. Steamed suet pudding and kederee were clearly not my favourite things.

[Annie.]

Ouch! That was a bit extreme.

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[marymck]

lol I was outraged! It was actually a genuine question, no one in the class could face eating the stuff we were being taught to cook.

When my mum was at school it was worse. She was really good at cooking, but the head teacher used to come in and taste the finished food. She'd then pick the best and take it home with her!

My grandmother used to struggle to afford the ingredients and my mum had six younger brothers and sisters who'd all be sitting at home, expecting to eat what my mum had cooked and she very often went home empty handed.

[Annie.]

Ahh, thats terrible, what a way to save money on the head teachers side though!
The primary school I went to there were a few caring staff , the secretary for example, at the end of each day she would call me to the office, any milk left over she would give me, I sometimes carried a crate home full of those little bottles of milk, (third of a pint I think) it was a luxury to have a fridge, so we used to stand them in one of those old belfast sinks in cold water, they didnt stay there long though, we all loved milk.

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[Tim Lund]

I can't remember my cookery teacher's name ... just the sting from when she slapped my face for asking when we'd get to cook something we'd want to eat. Steamed suet pudding and kederee were clearly not my favourite things.

From your surname and all those brothers and sisters of your Mum, is that an Irish Catholic background? I ask because my Mum used to teach cookery in a Catholic girls' school. One spring Wednesay morning she took a wet cloth to a girl's forehead to remove a dirty mark - how was she expected to understand these Papist customs? But I'm sure if any of her pupils had asked her your question, she would have treated them with all due consideration.

[marianne]

Goodness! I find that generalisation quite insulting - I take it that you think London families didn't have large families in the years before the Pill? I am also surprised that your mother was allowed to work in a 'Papist' school (as you so elegantly describe the religion) as the main priority in the 50's/60's was that the staff should be Catholic - and usually Irish - at least in my school!

[Annie.]

Goodness! I find that generalisation quite insulting - I take it that you think London families didn't have large families in the years before the Pill? I am also surprised that your mother was allowed to work in a 'Papist' school (as you so elegantly describe the religion) as the main priority in the 50's/60's was that the staff should be Catholic - and usually Irish - at least in my school!

I am from London, we were a family of 10 children (one died as a baby) no pill in those days, infact my mother was one of the first woman in the SE who trialled the pill, she was so fed up with having babies .she had her last one at the age of 42.

[Rachael]

Where I'm from, 'papist' is used as a derogatory term, but I don't know if that is the case here.

[marymck]

Yes I did find it a bit of an "ouch". Papist and Taig were used pretty much interchangably in my youth. I've had the "Any Taig will do" from the bad boys in N.I. and "FO no Papists here" slogans in Edinburgh. It's sort of the equivalent of the N word.

I don't think for one moment Tim meant to hurt though.

Funnily enough, half of my family is Catholic. But it's not my mum's side of the family!

[Eagle]

Perhaps we should ask the good Dr Paisley

[Robin Orton]

I'm quite happy to be called a Papist. But then I wasn't brought up in Ireland, where I suspect the word is a lot more highly charged than it is in England.

[marymck]

lol Eagle - Paisley actually asked me once if I was a Catholic. Interestingly, he didn't ask anyone else on the crew. I must have some sort of branding visible only to some.

At least he didn't say "Smell this woman's breath - this woman is a republican." I paraphrase of course ... I think it was to Nick Witchell or some other correspondent, at a news conference.

[Annie.]

Gosh Mary, im sorry if that offended you, I for one had no idea of the meaning of those words and my mum was a Catholic! It shows how easy it can be to offend.

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[marymck]

Oh no Annie - it was just an "ouch". It's the way these words are used that matters and I know Tim didn't mean to use it the way some do.

I know nowadays some people don't mind being called by the N word. But I can't even bring myself to type it, because I know it causes offence.

[marianne]

Where I'm from, 'papist' is used as a derogatory term, but I don't know if that is the case here.

I absolutely agree with you - it is a derogatory description of a Catholic as most educated people know.