Croydon Canal route: Honor Oak Park to Brockley

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 31 Jan 2008 20:30

It's all about getting an upgrade of this...

will greenwood · Post by **will greenwood** » 31 Jan 2008 20:44

the aerial photo steve grindley posted...

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 31 Jan 2008 20:48

I can't find the original topic, but you can get it from here:
http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1137
No good to this topic, but I have a special affection for it, since I lived round that part.

will greenwood · Post by **will greenwood** » 31 Jan 2008 21:02

you can see brockley way bridge, and the signalmans cottage...the lay out and shape is very different...low area where the crematorium is now...i must compare this with a modern image.

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 31 Jan 2008 21:05

I'm unable to interpet it properly myself until I go back to Honor Oak Park and take a comparison pic! It's bloody amazing though... similar to Steve's scan of the P&V postcard.

will greenwood · Post by **will greenwood** » 31 Jan 2008 21:22

certainly a view from the allotments would be the best way to get it into perspective...i've always wanted an excuse to have a look round on that side of the hill...
I reckon I might well be up to town next week...

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 31 Jan 2008 21:32

Give us a shout when you do come, and we can go for a walkabout if you're up for it... What did you say you were recovering from again? Not a cracked rib is it? That should only affect you when laying down at night I'm told.

will greenwood · Post by **will greenwood** » 31 Jan 2008 21:37

yeah, cracked rib ..but a chest infection on top....so its a bit debilitating...
but as soon as i feel capable i'll be there.
yeah..it would be an interesting walk...
(I need to do the sydenham woods, high level line walk as well.....time to top up on the actual topography, eh?~0

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 31 Jan 2008 21:46

I know the high level line quite well, apart from--guess(!)--the Honor Oak/Benchley Gardens part.

will greenwood · Post by **will greenwood** » 31 Jan 2008 22:05

I once went through the 2 tunnels....one grey winter morning.
the torch fell apart at the bend in the paxton one....pretty scary few minutes till i got the batteries back in....
anyway...I think...maybe a breakthrough...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2130/222 ... b023_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2330/222 ... 0121_o.jpg

i reckon the embankment on that photo is at least in part spoil from the canal, if not part of the canal bank....the canal line continues on in these maps as a field boundary....
could it be the embankment...
it seems it h playing field haas been extended westawards since the pic was taken...
i'll see if i can make that one work....

will greenwood · Post by **will greenwood** » 31 Jan 2008 23:12

extrapolating (wow!) from that image...

there are access paths at the points of the locks;
the area beyond the bank is higher than the nearer area;
the raised area narrows towards the bridge;

i've roughly placed it on google earth...

it may just pull the course slightly westwards again

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2293/223 ... c09b_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2069/223 ... 5e7b_b.jpg

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 31 Jan 2008 23:18

Will, one of my key skills is attention to detail, and I don't think I've met anyone in the past who excels more in this than myself. However, I think I have to admit it: your attention to detail far exceeds mine! Good work, mate... you are doing great! That is excellent analysis...

Steve Grindlay · Post by **Steve Grindlay** » 31 Jan 2008 23:23

I have just unearthed this map, which may be of some use/interest:

It is from Mylne's Geological map of 1858, and shows contour lines at 10 feet intervals. I assume that the canal would have followed the contours fairly closely, wherever possible. A higher resolution version is available <here>

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 31 Jan 2008 23:37

Will, that one is for you, mate! I'm not ready for it yet... Thanks Steve. *Falkor gets back to reading his book about the Croydon Canal.*

will greenwood · Post by **will greenwood** » 1 Feb 2008 00:35

thanks for that map, Steve...very helpful, indeed.
(and thanks for the many excelent images)

...and cheers, Falkor!
(well...its winter...i'm not well...etc etc..)

but really...its always fascinated me...and i havent had access to any real data before ....so its worth looking as deep as possible to gather it all together now, while the irons hot, so to speak...

( the dream would be to find one of the locks and do a proper dig....just think of the stuff to be found at the bottom of a lock!!!
...but that would need major preparation and licenses etc....
still...who knows...if we finally pinpoint one, eh?

will greenwood · Post by **will greenwood** » 1 Feb 2008 08:09

...looking at the contour map....
it would seem that the 'loop' accross devonshire rd would have had to be on and embankment across to garthorne rd.....theres at least a 20ft difference..

also, if the 'rope walk' bush thing is still there next to the boat inlet...then the nature reserve should still preserve at least part of the actual bank....theres no reason to infill at that point....

also...it seems the canal kept 'falling in' around this bit, so it would have gradually widened

will greenwood · Post by **will greenwood** » 1 Feb 2008 10:58

well...I've done a bit of alignment.....(best guess)...
heres the overlay of honor oak/contours/canal....

interestingly, the railway wont line up...so that too could have been straightened and probably widened since 1858
other than that its fairly accurate...and shows the canal crossing to the east bank of the cutting after lock 23...as we thought!

also, there must have been quite a substantial series of enmbankments and cuttings between top lock and forest hill where the land dropped away...there may be some evidence above the line of the cutting, at the nature reserve.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2059/223 ... 56fa_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2048/223 ... 5e2c_b.jpg

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 1 Feb 2008 13:59

Spot on mate!

Here's a zip up of that 1863 one sheet...
Download..
1874 map here...
1875 map here...

will greenwood · Post by **will greenwood** » 2 Feb 2008 12:19

I've just tried lining up the still visible 'keepers triangle. with the areial pic...
If we could pin down the position and angle of this top lock, we've cracked it
!
Falkor, do you fancy having a go at this allignment with your maps, if you havent already done so...then we can compare notes...
It does appear quite close to your recent overlay.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2007/223 ... 13af_o.jpg

(could part of the bank in that old picture be the towpath?)

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 2 Feb 2008 12:54

I think you've already cracked it, mate. The position and angle seems fine. And your latest overlay shows, more accurately, where the lockkeeper's cottage stood.

I can't figure out the bank in that old photo until I go back to Honor Oak Park to investigate and take some comparison pics. I'll definitely ask LLS about a potential upgrade for that photo, too. I'd imagine the towpath went with the canal.

In reply to an earlier idea you mentioned about contacting the railway company for a dig: in my experience it's always best to do things unofficially, but that's not to say your idea won't have a chance. I think we could atleast try a little harmless dig into the banks beside the tennis courts.

Sydenham Town Forum

The Community Voice for London SE26 since 2004

Croydon Canal route: Honor Oak Park to Brockley