Antic pubs have withdrawn from the Greyhound

[Annie.]

No documents to look at yet.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[ALIB]

And Lewishams reply to any email will be something like this

"Rebuilding of the Greyhound Public House (with retention of the front
elevation) at 309-315 Kirkdale SE26 to provide a pub/restaurant (Use Class A3 /
A4) in the basement and ground floor, and change of use of the upper floors to
accommodate 2, two bedroom maisonettes together with enlargement of the
basement, construction of a mezzanine floor in the roof space, conservatory to
the side and alterations to the external elevations.

Thank you for your letter giving your comments on the above proposal, which will be
taken into account when this matter is considered.
The majority of applications are decided by Senior Planning Officers under delegated
authority, but if this proposal is to be reported to Committee for determination by the
elected Councillors, you will be invited to attend the Committtee meeting.
For your information, Committees are held on Thursday evenings at 7.30, but at this
stage it is not known whether the application will be reported to Committee or to
which meeting the proposal would be considered.
If the proposal is going to be reported to Committee, you will be given as much notice
of the date as possible. A representative of the objectors will be able to speak to
Committee for 5 minutes giving reasons for objecting. If you want, you can meet with
other objectors before the Committee meeting in another committee room or the
Civic Suite foyer if available. Further details of this will follow.
You can also phone to find out the names of other objectors once the time period for
making written comments has passed, or to obtain a leaflet explaining more fully the
process and guidance for objectors."

[ALIB]

So get emailing and writing letters. This is the time to get active, if you want to make a difference

[Chris Best]

I think there will be a number of objections and expect this application to be heard by a Planning Committee. Part of the process is to hold an objectors meeting so that the applicant can hear local views and if necessary modify the application. Once the application has been fully processed there should be a notice on the site with the details and closing date for objections.

[leenewham]

What will the objections be?

To the flats above? What grounds will this be?

I'd hate to live above a pub, it makes more sense to make this pub space, function rooms etc, which we are sadly lacking, but how do you object in a way that makes sense to planning?

[Eagle]

I agree Lee but surely they have enough flats built in the old car park already.

Surely when it was originally agreed to devolop and retain the Pub , it was not the intention to turn the upstairs into living space , or was it.

[simon]

No it wasn't Eagle, hence the application to add the flats now.
This needs to be opposed. They have claimed to have an operator lined up, which may be the case. But any operator will surely be put off by flats upstairs as it massively restricts any future expansion. I am concerned that they will get permission for the flats, get them built and then say their deal with the as yet unnamed operator has fallen through. They can then leave the downstairs empty sayin they cant get an operator for a few months and then apply for change of use to retail as an alternative to an empty space. If I was an unscrupulous property developer thats what I would do.

[leenewham]

I agree.

Perhaps they are squeezing in extra flats to pay for the rebuild and mural on the back wall…

[Eagle]

Simon and Lee
I agree 100%

The Pub should be put back the way the original planning application intended. Surely the council will see through this.

[ALIB]

And the thing is,..this was planned long in advance by Purelake.
Foundation design is an exact science. You can't just chuck an extension on a building without knowing the loads that are going to be applied to the foundations.

If i was an unscrupulous developer and wanted to maximise a former Public House, one option might be to tear it down so i can install better foundations, then re-build whilst submitting a Planning Application for a bigger building,...and possible change of use.

When Purelake took over from Milford Homes, I think we felt we had a developer who actually listened to the public. All the consultations, the model in Kirkdale Books,......and for what ?

To knock the pub down and re-build what they like.

I'm sorry, but this is outrageous

[Annie.]

AliB, nothing will be one about this by the council,they should have/ probably did see this coming, if they didnt then they shouldnt have the job,I have no faith in Lewisham planning at all,I put in two objections to two different planning applications over the last couple of years and no one gives a damn there,its not them that have o live with the changes they allow though.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Eagle]

Very sad but probably agree that the demolition of the Pub was in fact no accident , but a clever plan.

You would question why risk their reputation for 1 new flat. Cannot see it selling for much if a Pub does move in downstairs. But I suspect in the end the ground floor will not be a Pub.

[coll]

I'm sure this has been asked on various other threads on this forum but is there some standard form and or letter of complaint or objection that we can get our hands on to help us know what to include in our own objection?
Would that be helpful to others? If anyone knows of one it would be great if they could paste it here.

[Pat Trembath]

http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/LEWIS-XS ... mkey=66511

The above link should take you to the documents. The application is now live. The Sydenham Society will be objecting to the plans for residential. The more adverse comments, the better.

[Pat Trembath]

Just "bumping" this subject up together with the link to the documents relating to the latest Greyhound application.

http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/LEWIS-XS ... mkey=66511

[ALIB]

edit

[simono]

Sorry but I like the plans and wonder what the fuss is about. Let us look at this dispassionately.
1. In design terms I think that the conservatory enhances the building, echoing what was originally there. In any case I am sorry that given the modern building around the site that hardly enhances the pub building with the addition of Sainsbury's signage there is little more harm to do.
2. The changes will create a more viable pub/restaurant. Whilst there is a loss of open space because of the conservatory this would hardly have been used as outside space for the pub. Now a space that is usable 365 days a year will be created. The use of the basement will match the loss of the upper floors and will be of better design as it wil be purpose built. Also in terms of nuisance to neighbours there will be less escape of sound so the area can be used better for music etc.
3. There is no loss of any internal merit to the building. Afterall there is none left. In any case with the removal of the tiled bar, and for those with long memories the long bar, the reality was that the interior had no merit.
4. In terms of the provision of accommodation there are three issues.
a. There always was residential upstairs in the Greyhound.
b. The original plans submitted for the site, worked up in partnership between the developer, Council and the Sydenham Society was for a development of around 70 flats on the site. The addition of 2 more hardly therefore can justify the outcry.
c. The approved plan says that the development did not need parking because of its location. The area is already impossibly heavily parked so again this will have no impact.

So in summary, this is an enhancement to the design, it creates a more viable commercial unit and there is no real impact in terms of additional residential units. Further as the changes are so marginal they will have little or no effect on neighbours. So what is all the fuss about?

[simon]

Sorry Simono but I must take issue with your assertion that the new plans create a more viable commercial unit. As a shop perhaps, but not as a pub. Can you imagine the upstairs residents being enthused about late night music? The size of the pub is massively diminished and while the developers may claim that they have an operator lined up, any future operator will be severely restricted in terms of what they are able to offer. Its worth remebering that Antic cited lack of space as a reason why they pulled out. It is also worth remebering that the Greyhound used to be a large pub that hosted music and comedy nights, things unlikely to return to the proposed site.
There is also the point of principle here; Purelake were granted permission on the basis that the pub would be retained. Now they want massively reduce it to add over £500,000 worth of profit to their bottom line. Some of the 70 odd flats are shared ownership or affordable housing. I dont think the new proposed maisonettes are. Purelake are just trying it on and I would have thought they would be happy with the 70 flats they already have.

[marymck]

I'd also like to add that we're desperately short of function rooms in Sydenham. If there's space upstairs then it would be much more valuable to the community as a function room than a flat.

We have the Golden Lion. They don't do food. Where else is there in Sydenham (seriously - I'd like to know.)?

As more and more pubs are lost in the Borough (Woodman + loads in Grove Park + the big one in Downham) we're losing the traditional places the community rely on for functions such as wakes.

[Annie.]

I used to really enjoy the Jazz there,When it was going to be redeveloped I assumed the music side/ rooms were going to stay,then I saw the overwhelming flats,totally out of character for the area,the whole thing is a shambles,and should never have been allowed, yes develope the site, but it could have been done so much better,at least the white bricks havent been used, As for it being the " Gateway" to Sydenham, well poor old Sydders thats all i can say, I have tried to be optimistic on this subject, but find time and again that history of an area is just ignored for profit.so stick that in your pipe!

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]