What's happened to the cycle parking in the High St?

[mikej]

I suppose so, though the old location is quite near the entrance to the Co-op. Did you feel it was in the way for pedestrians, Stuart?

[marymck]

I think there's no need to have any at the coop. That's just round the corner from Girton Road cp! Surely even the laziest cyclist would walk that far for the good of keeping a nice pavement?

I agree that on street car parking should be for disabled motorists only. And according to HB's link, there's enough space in one car park space to park 18 bikes! So surely converting a couple of disabled car parking spaces for the use of bikes on the high street would be enough for sydenham's cyclists? Have we ever had more than 36 bikes parked at one time?

So HB and I are in agreement! Gosh I feel quite giddy with joy. We should probably quit while we're ahead oh hairy one?

If we can keep the pavements clear and get some of the yucky old phone boxes and advertising stands removed maybe the market can eventually expand and we can have street events. Having permanent structures on the pavements is very restricting. I can see the littlies of sydenham having carol singing etc on our nice clear pavements. wouldn't't it be loverly?

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[mikej]

I certainly don't agree, Mary! A couple of cycle parking things takes up very little space, especially now that the new pavements are so wide. And I thought that the new pocket squares were the place where street events were supposed to happen? OK - don't put cycle thingies in those spots.
If you take away those cycle facilities, cyclists may go elsewhere which - clearly - would be bad for the high street.
I often pop into the Co-op for a couple of items (I don't use it for major shopping) and would be put off if I had to park in the Girton CP.

[marymck]

I certainly don't agree, Mary! A couple of cycle parking things takes up very little space, especially now that the new pavements are so wide. And I thought that the new pocket squares were the place where street events were supposed to happen? OK - don't put cycle thingies in those spots.
If you take away those cycle facilities, cyclists may go elsewhere which - clearly - would be bad for the high street.
I often pop into the Co-op for a couple of items (I don't use it for major shopping) and would be put off if I had to park in the Girton CP.

But Mike that's the same argument used by some motorists. If the motorists are bad/lazy/selfish not to park in Girton road cp, what does that make the cyclists? Bit of a double standard methinks.

And anyway, if all on street parking were for disabled motorists, with a few of those spaces converted for motorbikes and cycles, surely that would be close enough?

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[Rachael]

But what's your objection to cycle stands, Mary? With the pavement being so wide now outside the Co-op, they aren't going to cause any obstruction.

[marymck]

I don't have an objection to some cycle stands, Rachael. Emphasis on some, which I can't figure out how to type on my mobile!

But I see no need for them just a few steps from a perfectly good car park. Nor do I see a need for on street car parking for the able bodied, as long as Girton road remains a free cp.

We already have some on pavement cycle stands. HB and I have suggested restricting on street parking to disabled bays and cycle bays.

I'd like to see the pavements as clear of clutter as possible. Lewisham has a contract for advertising stands. I will be urging our councillors to press that Lewisham doesn't't renew that contract when it expires.

I'd like to see redundant phoneboxes removed.

BT plonk their green comms boxes wherever they choose. That is their legal right and I don't think anything can be done about it.

But if we can keep our pavements as clear as we can it will make for a safer life for the less able and those with prams. And it will keep them adaptable for street events.

And yes, cycles parked on the pavement can and do cause an obstruction.

I

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[14BradfordRoad]

I hope that they sort out some cycle racks outside these shops. It would save me chaining up to
a convenient lamp post and encourage cycling at the same time (a good thing). Surely car parks
/parking are a very different issue ( car being the big clue here)..

Would be great to have that village feel where one can cycle down to the local shops and fill their bike
basket with goodies to take back home (to their rosey cottage of course)!

[SepticSkeptic]

The thought of cycle racks causing any kind of restriction to other pavement users on the massive expanse of concrete outside CO-OP is so outrageous it has dragged me out of lurkerdom!

I hope it is an oversight in the project and they will be replaced. At the moment I have to lock my bike to the rail of the trolley park.... which whilst not causing a sniff of an obstruction I'm sure it raises tuts of disapproval from those ideologically against cyclists.

Some reasons why I won't be using an off-highstreet parking solution (i.e the GR car park)
1) Bikes are vulnerable - far more likely to have stolen wheels, seat or whole bike from a poorly attended car park than a busy highstreet

2) If you are on your bike going to the shops it is obviously for one or two items, maybe on your way home from work... In and out quickly. Car park 75m away? that's half-way to my house..

- Well back in the 1950s people would cycle home first then walk back

:facepalm:

[hairybuddha]

Very glad that the centre of gravity seems to be shifting towards making the High St less hospitable for those who wish to use their car there.

Not convinced by Mary's suggestion that we restrict cycling parking to a couple of clusters but since our new found friendship is going so well I won't jeapordise it by saying something like "load of old nonsense" or "don't be so silly"

[hairybuddha]

p.s I'm just back from Eindhoven which was an illuminating experience when it comes to the debate about public spaces. Here are some photos that I took

What the Dutch do when they have to get cycle lanes around big junctions


When there are roadworks, they close the motor lanes to keep the bike lanes open


Cyclists are fully protected when they cross busy roads and railways


And here's how they organise suburbia

[marymck]

It would be nice to make our high street hospitable and user friendly to ALL. We're all shoppers, no matter how we get here.

I believe the able bodied should think of those less able and keep on street parking for them. If only we could also keep our pavements clear of unnecessary clutter it would be a safer and more hospitable place for all. I'm amazed that people who are lucky enough to be fit and healthy enough to ride a bike won't walk a few yards to the shops. It beggars belief. I'm quite shocked actually, as well as very, very disappointed. Bangs head against wall and gives up.

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[hairybuddha]

Mary - That really is the most ridiculous straw man argument. Do we currently have a problem with cycle parking restricting disabled access to shops? Is this likely to become a problem in the near or distant future?

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[marymck]

Hairy we've been talking on here about clutter on the pavements. It's ridiculous to say bikes parked on the pavement don't contribute to street clutter. In addition to restricting pavement activities, street clutter makes safe passage more difficult for the blind and disabled. Fact.

You posted a link that suggested 18 bikes could be parked in one car park space. By restricting on street parking to disabled, motorbikes and dedicated cycle bays everyone can win. Even converting two disabled parking bays on your evidence provides parking for 36 bikes. Plus Girton road, plus the station, plus the racks already installed. This isn't china in the 70s, how many bikes do you need for heaven's sake? Sydenham has to work for all, not just cyclists.

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[14BradfordRoad]

BUT isn't cycling down to the shops, actually right up to the shops (rather than walking from the dreaded local
car park) a nice thing to be able to do? I can't see how this idyllic situation could possibly offend or restrict others
from going about their day to day business, both able or disabled. Why would anyone choose to cycle down to a car
park (dare I say it - intended for motor vehicles)?

No reason here not to please as many as possible within sensible reason. Many of us cyclists have no wish to be
an encumberance to others, quite the opposite in fact... But don't understand any requirement to walk to and
fro from the car park when picking up a few provisions from the local shops! The expanse of pavement is vast
(as already pointed out), can't see how some bike racks or a few (very necessary) comms box can make any
real difference to our overall well-being.

HB: I agree that they have put much consideration into this in Holland where cycling is generally viewed very
differently. Would love to see this replicated in the UK to some degree, what with the pollution and rising costs
of motoring these days who knows? Healthier life style too..

[14BradfordRoad]

how many bikes do you need for heaven's sake? Sydenham has to work for all, not just cyclists.

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A bike for every cyclist presumably Mary! Where's the problem with this?
Really can't see how well thought out bike racks would cause any problem and why we shouldn't have them. No reason
to suspect that Sydenham High Street can't still work for non-cyclists too. Of course there will always be those that
really just don't like cycling and would ban cyclists completely (or even make them walk to and fro from a car park)
but as you point out: Sydenham has to work for all!

[marymck]

Ok I'll rephrase the question bradford. How many cyclists at any one time need a bike rack on our high street? Surely for something to be "well thought out" that needs to be known?

I am quite genuinely shocked that sydenham's cyclists won't walk even a short distance though. I thought it quite reasonable to suggest installing bike racks outside the station and in the car park. But they have to be immediately outside the particular shop of choice apparently. Not a shop along the road or a converted disabled parking bay. Ye gods.

And I do sometimes wonder whether some people even bother to read through the whole post they're commenting on. Instead some just pick out a phrase or one part of an argument and twist it out of context. So, for the umpteeth time ... I am not anti bike, I am not suggesting making all cyclists suffer the pain and indignity of walking all of 50 yards from the car park, I am not suggesting removing all bike racks from the pavements. What I am is blithering fed up and tired of this whole thing. Nothing's going to change and street clutter (and - rolls eyes - I'm NOT just talking about bike stands) will continue to be randomly plonked wherever we happen to have the hope of a breathing space.

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[hairybuddha]

I agree with Mary, the only solution is to completely pedestrianise the High St from Kirkdale to Mayow Rd. Then we'll have so much space we won't know what to do with it

Damn lazy cyclists, taking up all the room.......

[marymck]

I agree with Mary, the only solution is to completely pedestrianise the High St from Kirkdale to Mayow Rd. Then we'll have so much space we won't know what to do with it

Damn lazy cyclists, taking up all the room.......

Just to clarify for those who haven't followed the boring and frustrating threads on here: HB is attempting to use sarcasm to wind me up. He knows I am against his impractical and ill thought through Little Britainesque attempts to argue for pedestrianization of the high street. Which by the way didn't even get a mention at the sydenham assembly HB. I assume you didn't attend HB, which was a shame as it would have been an ideal time for you to present your plans.

I actually thought at one point we were in agreement on this thread, when HB posted a link that stated that 18 bikes could fit in one car parking space. I have said for a long time that I thought on street car parking in the High street should be reserved for the disabled. I thought HB's info offered a solution to both the problems if parking.g bikes whilst helping to minimize the clutter on our pavements.

But sadly I was wrong. Converting two disabled bays ON THE HIGH STREET to provide parking for 36 bikes is not what HB and similarly minded cyclists want. They want restrictions for others, but not themselves. So we'll never have consensus. Motorists can do no right and cyclists can do no wrong. Motorists are lazy not to want to walk from the car park, but a cyclist has to park their bike immediately outside the very shop they want to use. There's simply no point in attempting to have a rational discussion with someone who thinks they can cross the road whenever and wherever they want and park their bike wherever they want and sod the impact on,anyone else.

I hope HB never gets hit by a wayward speeding cyclist when jay walking blindfold. He wouldn't know whose side to take. Smiley face here, if only my mobile allowed.

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[leenewham]

Regarding siting cycle racks, I'm with HB on this. The area of pavement by the Co-operative is vast (not very well thought out I'd say as it's never THAT busy there, I'd have thought it would have been better as a bit more parking) and is a very good point for cycle racks outside the biggest supermarket in the high street. I know when I had a bike I preferred to have it somewhere close to where I was. I certainly wouldn't leave a bike in a car park out of site of passers by.

If the bike racks are well sited I see no problem with them. They need to be in sites well used for shops and pedestrians.

I also agree with Mary about street clutter. The phone boxes should really have been removed if possible and it is possible to find out who owns them. The plans for the high street have been in action for years and years and it seems rather daft that this wasn't given more priority. The alarming red tape of some of these contracts is incredible!

I'd prefer the advertising boards to be removed. The council get an income from these, but most of them see to carry the councils advertising!

[dickp]

Having nothing in particular to add to this debate, you guys' argument are certainly making my train journey more enjoyable. Keep up the good fight!

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