Busses

[Annie.]

I never said bus drivers were absolute idiots- I said they make us look like absolute idiots-secondlt-I have agreed with you about the greedy people at "The Top" but, having said that if us mere mortals could do the same we probably would.
What I am disagreeing with you on is the Bonus- this should be paid after the event has made money,not before,years ago at work unless I had done a good job-which lets face it,we are actually paid to do a good job! Then I might but only just might be given a bonus. This should still apply.

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[maestro]

@ Eagle:- To get from Mallaig to Lewis you'd need to take a CalMac ferry to Armadale on Skye, travel across the island to Uig and catch another CalMac ferry to Tarbert. There is a direct ferry service between Stornoway on Lewis and Ullapool.

If you were in the Highlands in the 60's, you might remember MacBrayne's buses were a regular sight (no longer operating but were part of what became the Caledonian MacBrayne group), on which many essential supplies were delivered, such as yesterday's newspapers, post and parcels as well as carrying passengers.

[cockneyrebel]

Annie this isn't about the technicalities of exactly what a bonus is. Bus drivers will be under even more pressure during the Olympics, and their day to day job is already very stressful (something the Etonian toffs who run the government would never know about as they never use buses). This is an attempt by bus drivers to get back a tiny amount of the massive profits that the bus companies are making which is lining the pockets of a handful of individuals, who don't actually do the hard work on the front line. Indeed bus companies made billions of pounds of profit in 2011. The cost of the bonus would be a paltry £16 million, probably not even 1% of their profits.

The people who make us look like idiots are those who accept their plight year after year and put up with bad wages and conditions. And know I wouldn't do the same as billionaires who live in luxury at the expense of everyone else. I think it's immoral and disgusting.

Someone mentioned surreal. What is really surreal is that the media, and some people, regularly say that we shouldn't be like the terrible French. But wait a minute, on nearly every measure of standard of living, French workers are better off than here, where we have some of the most "flexible" (read no rights) work forces in the West. They have better health care, a far better, nationalised, rail service, their pension age has just been reduced by two years to 60, they get more for their pension, a better minimum wage, better welfare payments, better wages, better holidays. I mean who would want all that? Far better to doff your cap to those up above, work as hard as you can and never go on strike.

[Annie.]

I have always belonged to the unions in my work places,and have taken time off to support my collegues years ago,however I still think a bonus shoud be just that-a bonus,
If they deserve one,let them have one.

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[Eagle]

Maestro
Thanks. Yes remember the ferries and buses. in 66, 67 and 68 travelled with friends round Scotland by train.

Reason ferry used to go from Mallaig I guess is because it is on a railway line , whereas Ullapool never has been , or certainly not post Beeching , on the railway system.
Seem to recall Cal Mac were also connected to BR , because you could use Scottish Rail Rover on their services.

This was also well before Skye Bridge when foot ferry operated from Kyle of Lochalsh to Kylekin.


Will not involved with the argument about parasitic unions bosses.

[cockneyrebel]

Lol. As the workers voted overwhelmingly to go on strike you can't get away with talking about parasitic union bosses, you would have to apply that the the vast majority of London bus drivers.

But strangely enough you don't talk about the parasitic Etonian clique around Cameron, the parasitic bosses of the bus companies making billions in profits or the parasites who the 1000 richest people in the UK who have 415 billion on wealth, far more than the entire national debt. All the while these spongers carry out tax dodging while the banks siphon off billions to bail out their greed. But heh let's have a go at badly paid bus drivers.

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[14BradfordRoad]

I don't know enough about the actual wages for a London bus driver but believe that:
It's always a shame that workers have the need to strike at all to get basic recognition or
decent pay for a job well done then be put down for speaking up. We wouldn't need unions at
all if we were all treated with the respect, recognition and fair rewards deserved.

Not all unions are always reasonable but don't think we should dismiss them all as parasites
either. There will always be some unrealistic unions (as much as unrealistic other parts of our
society) but we would have little in the way of 'fair' workers rights without them!

I'm sceptical of bonus schemes as they can be very hard to regulate and distribute fairly. They
can lead to abuse and further unfairness amongst workers, have also exprienced the very rocky slope from bonus to performance related pay. I would sooner be paid a fair wage for a good job done.
As I've already mentioned there are too many bad examples of 'bonus abuse' often from those
(the real parasites) who least need or deserve any extra at all. We all know who they are!

[Annie.]

I agree with you B14,many years ago,a bonus scheme was brought into the place I was working,when I asked who was getting the bonus, I was told they stick a pin in a box full of names and whichever it sticks to gets the bonus,in the end I told them basically to stick it, literally! Not that I didnt get the bonus,I did,but also people who didnt deserve it got it too, and people who worked hard,never had a day off sick etc etc didnt get it, this was in catering by the way,a lowly paid job by all accounts.
My take on it then is the same as now,you get paid a wage to do a job well, a bonus is just that. In reality people in low paid employment should not have o rely on a bonus or any other "incentive" they should just get a decent wage to begin with.

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[cockneyrebel]

I agree about having a decent basic wage and am also against performance related pay. UNITE has a separate dispute with the bus companies around the fact that they keep cutting wages despite huge profits. That might well lead to strike action as well and the usual suspects in the media will condemn that as well despite there being no other option other than just to keep accepting wage cuts while the companies keep raking it in.

But this is about a one off payment for the Olympics because of the extra work pressures and would be given to all drivers.

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[Annie.]

Is it a one off payment to just the London bus drivers? Or to other drivers around the country?

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[cockneyrebel]

A one off payment to London drivers as far as I know. Pretty sure that is the case.

I'm in UNISON and local government and wish our union would take some action. Our wage rises have been 2009 1%, 2010 0%, 2011 0%, 2012 0%.

With inflation as it has been that's the equivalent of a 15% pay cut over the four years. And the government is saying we should have another two year pay freeze and have also slashed our pensions. And the rich are richer than they have ever been.

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[Annie.]

I earn £6.98 an hour beat that!

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[Annie.]

The reason I asked about who gets the bonus if it happens is what about bus drivers who have extra work to ferry people from all over the country to the games via train stations or what ever? Where do you draw the line?

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[cockneyrebel]

There are loads of very low paid workers in local government. But I wish all workers the best in fighting for a better wage. It's like the nonsense that the media and government come out with that because many private sector workers have rubbish pension schemes public sector workers should get theirs cut. I would say the answer is the other way round and private sector workers should get better pensions, not have a race to the bottom.

As for where you draw the line I wouldn't. The more workers can get back from the fat cat profits, the better.

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[Annie.]

It wouldnt work like that though would it? The bus companies or whoever else will just increase their prices which would affect us all--- again.

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[14BradfordRoad]

One of the factors that possibly makes the bonus for busses such a burning issue is that a
deal had already been made for the tube drivers. Bonus's and bonus schemes of many kinds
seem to cause problems and end up treating some people well and others unfairly as per the examples given.

I am beginning to understand why bus drivers (from their point of view) would see a one off payment / bonus in the present situation a fair and acceptable compromise for the extra
work and commitment being asked of them and already awarded to some others.
Would ideally like to see further employment opportunities for others coming from profitability made out of the Olympics, that would seem a more positive outcome for all in the long run.

[14BradfordRoad]

I earn £6.98 an hour beat that!

Bless you Annie!
You probably deserve a bonus too.. A fairer wage packet - even better!

[cockneyrebel]

Annie I can't see why it can't work like that. Workers can force companies to give more of their profits to wages. And at the end of the day to stop profiteering you can nationalise the bus companies. The alternative is to let bosses and companies walk all over us and accept low wages, bad pensions and rubbish conditions. French workers know how to stand up for themselves which is why they have better standards of living.

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[Annie.]

The tube drivers, train drivers,bus drivers,who else? The street cleaners,the bin men,the caterers,what about all the volunteers who as far as i know wont be paid? Where should it stop?
The so called Fat Cats wont pay,it will be us the people whi will pay in the end. ps England are playing crap!

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[Annie.]

Thank you 14B, I feel so hard done by :0(
But there are many who work for that derisory amount. I told you that just to let you know that I am not a Fat Cat haha.

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