Mugging on bishopsthorpe road

[JulietP]

My policeman friend says that if this happens to you, try to remember their shoes - it's the one thing they can't take off or change easily.

[catwoman]

@14BradfordRoad

I know quite a lot about how prison works as I come from a criminal family. Proud of it I am not. Back in the 70's when you could call prison, prison, because it was a lot harder in them days. It deterred mr brothers from going back in as they had very little privilages. My nephew who was in prison 8 years ago said prison life is so easy, and that you could get away with a lot more.

Prison has got to go back to the way it used to be. There are many corrupt prison wardens these days.

You're right, it is up to criminals to commit these crimes if they hoose to do so, but if prison life was harder then maybe they would think otherwise.

[14BradfordRoad]

Catwoman,
Surely it is much better to prevent crimes from happening in the first place rather than
awaiting upon a criminals point view as to whether life was easy or hard in prison.
This may work with petty crimes, theft, etc (non-violent crimes) but violent criminals are
not as easily deterred, we are talking about violent knife crime here!
This can be backed up by countries and various states of America that still have harsh prison sentences yet still have high levels of violent crime and reoffence level including violent
weapons and firearms crime. I personally believe that crime escalates when our streets are
not sufficiently policed, this costs money which is not forthcoming, a big mistake in my opinion.

I do find it strange that so often criminals when caught want to point the finger at people
working in the prison services and at our Police force. Suddenly they expect the world to be
a better and fairer place!
That said Catwoman I'm glad to hear that your family members have seen the light and
decided to lead better lives. Often ex-cons are the best people to influence and educate our current offending youth, there is a level of success with programmes doing just this!

[catwoman]

@14Bradfordroad

I'm really not interested in America because I blame them for how our youngsters have turned out on the streets today, as they want to be just like American criminals. I only have interest in my own country. I've come up with a way to deter criminals, lets just all walk around with blue flashing lights on or heads and totally confuse the scum bags.

[Annie]

@14Bradfordroad

I'm really not interested in America because I blame them for how our youngsters have turned out on the streets today, as they want to be just like American criminals. I only have interest in my own country. I've come up with a way to deter criminals, lets just all walk around with blue flashing lights on or heads and totally confuse the scum bags.

Chop their hands off! thats the answer!

[Eagle]

Very strange posts in some cases.

Catlady . How can all the problems of our young persons be the responsibility of The USA.
Us older people are responsible for bringing up a generation who in many cases show no disipline or respect.

Rot started with The Wilson government of the 60's when death penalty for premeditated murder. We were then promised do not woryy life will mean life. Now it means about 5 years max.

We are now reaping the whirlwind of generations of liberal do gooders.

[leenewham]

If that were the case then the areas of the USA with the death penalty should have lower murder rates.

In general they don't.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder- ... -and-state

Can you explain what 'liberal do gooders' means exactly as I don't understand what it means, it's rather vague isn't it?

[anonlocal]

I don't have much to add regarding what to do about the mugging situation or the US blame game (no personal opinion on that). I only wanted to send my sympathies and add to the case and indeed the cause.

I've been living in Sydenham now for 2 years (having moved from SW london) and over the last 12 months have seen and experienced a rapid increase in crime. Not sure how we tackle this, I know it sounds daft - but is there or has there ever been a neighbourhood watch scheme?

My flatmate was mugged last year down Bishopsthorpe, around 9pm in July so it was still fairly light. She managed to get away as she legged it into oncoming traffic on the road - she got away with all her belongings and luckily unscathed considering she ran into traffic.

She has also recently been followed by two separate cars (one van) walking back from Penge East towards the Dolphin Pub. Luckily my boyfriend was home and able to jump in the car and get her, whilst I stayed home ready to call the police...yet again.

Separately I had a couple of incidents near Mayow Road and had a man follow me home and then turn up a month later at my front door trying to push his way in. For weeks I walked home in fear varying my route with my phone in my hand with 999 ready to be dialled for fear of this guy turning up again as he didnt quite understand what no meant the first and second time, only to realise that calling the police down bishopsthorpe and mayow road is making me a target for another crime!

All crimes were reported and the police put on extra cover (I've been told) but never supplied us with rape alarms or anything of use.

We did however get a lovely collection of pens, rulers and pamplets!! All very helpful when someone is trying to get in your house, steal your phone or worse rape you! One moment please attacker...let me find that ruler I was given and give you a much needed smack. Feel free to read this informative pamphlet whilst I search in my purse, show you that I have an iphone and a wallet, and then you can resume attacking me (whilst I take a mental note of your shoes which apparently you wont be able to bin - police helpful as ever again.)

Speaking of which, my only protection now is my stilettos which I carry with me not for fashion but as an aid seeing as we are not legally able to carry pepper spray in this country.

To add to this, there is not nearly enough parking at Sydenham/Forest Hill station so even though I have a car I am not able to park at either station and am forced to do a 15min walk home in the evenings, or pay to get a cab - senseless when I have a car.

I don't quite know how we can take matters into our own hands (be it a neighbourhood watch scheme or fight for extra parking at the station, which will probably only open up other avenues of crime) but I think we have too...the rulers my flatmate and I were given only extends quite so far in an emergency.

[catwoman]

Eagle,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is mine. If you hear how the youths speak and act on the streets today you'll understand what I mean.

[14BradfordRoad]

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an easy solution here. Prevention before a crime
happens is obviously the ideal, CCTV, police patrols may help.

Prisons don't seem to stop re-offending either (see Guardian link):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/0 ... ty-service
14 prisons taken into account and re-offence rates. Reports on effectiveness of community
service / society pay-back schemes.

Countries that have harsh deterents, tough prisons still often have high levels of violent
crime so does prison really offer the best solution?
I suspect that humanity being what it is will always produce a level of petty crime, theft etc
but violent crime / mugging at knifepoint, maiming, murder goes way beyond this. We have
to start looking at the real reasons behind this as no amount of death penalties, tough prison institutions, floggings, birching will never bring a murder victim back.

In the past year we have seen an escalation in muggings (Bishopsthorp an example) and in
violence such as rioting leading to life threatening fires being started in peoples homes. We
can't lock every offender up we are running out of prison space, floating prisons have even
been considered to deal with the escalating numbers!

Catwoman,
Ref; The behaviour of the young that you describe, do you think that media plays a large
part in this? I see this behaviour in some of them too, thankfully not all youngsters are like
this and struggle to make something good of their lives even though life can be tough.
Like Eagle, I believe that good parenting / role modelling has an important part to play.

[Eagle]

Catlady
I usually cannot understand young persons on the street. Their diction is a sad indictment of ten years plus of free education.

Bradford
Very sad we no longer have Virginia or New South Wales to dump our trash. The world is now more full up and we have to deal with the problem.
Prison hulks worked bedore. Surely many old army camps not being used. We have to forget at providing gym's and colour TV's etc. Hard labour needs to be found

[Annie]

Maybe, rather than losing all that labour that we are paying for while they are in prison,
they could be "made" to work,ie- helping do old peoples gardening,or help to build community centers,clear fly tipping,graffiti from the community they come from etc etc,and maybe, through them helping and seeing how they can help, rather then ruin an area, it might make them feel part of it?


I know I know,in my dreams.

[Eagle]

Annie
In theory great idea , but what if they do not turn up or turn up and do not work.

I understand only about 50% turnup for community service . I imagined in my naive way that they would then automatically get a custodial period in prison. Apparently more likely just forgotten.

And to think someone mentioned what I mean by do gooders. They have caused this problem in last 45/50 years.

[stuart]

I don't normally credit Tony Blair with much. Quite the reverse. But one thing you cannot take away from him was a significant reduction in crime across his tenure. The first such decrease in living memory. Mainly because he would not accept the civil service position claiming that it was impossible. Everything had been tried. Or so they claimed.

It was done pragmatically by a series of different initiatives. Some worked, some didn't but overall a grip was taken and the rises were reversed. Yes his reluctance the bite the bullet on drug policy was a major problem in that and related crime but it was just not politically acceptable at that time (or this).

I've said before to you Eagle that getting sentencing confused with punishment is unhelpful. Prison, the birch or whatever might make victims feel better but it is counterproductive if it does not stop repetition. And the stats do say it is pretty useless and expensively useless.

There's no golden bullet to getting bad people to be less bad. But community service, bad as it is, does work better for some then custodial. That's also another point - we are trying to stop individuals from returning to crime and what may work for one may not work for another. Simple solutions don't work. Otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess.

The immediate outlook is grim. Crime is related to unemployment so it is likely to rise. Also when people don't feel connected with society they are less likely to respect people and property.

We can blame them for their fecklessness etc but that isn't going to stop them hurting us. We, sadly, have to take responsibility for changing their ways. Reducing crime is doing good. Don't confuse that with do-gooders who promote schemes they would like to reduce crime but don't. And on your record I fear you may be one of them.

Stuart

[Eagle]

Stuart
Anthony Blair was PM in the world wide boom that has preceeded this bust. He had money to spend.
Like his fellow Scot , GB , he made situation worse with things like human rights , health and safety etc.

I agree we have to sort out but do not agree that patting them on the back after they have mugged an old lady a great idea.

[stuart]

Anthony Blair was PM in the world wide boom that has preceeded this bust. He had money to spend.
Like his fellow Scot , GB , he made situation worse with things like human rights , health and safety etc.

You could not be more wrong Eagle. Violent crime fell by 50% since 1995 according to the British Crime Survey. I don't think that all happened in the first two years. Blair was not the only post war PM to preside over a boom. But he was the one that reduced crime like that.

Whatever else, you can't take that away from him (or at least his administration). I shall be even more glad if the present incumbent can do only half as well. A wager Eagle?

Stuart

[marymck]

Firstly, I want to give my sympathy to Sydenhamguy and anyone else who has had this sort of terrifying experience.

JulietP: good tip about remembering the shoes. I was watching a TV report the other night where they had gone to great lengths to hide the interviewee's identity, but kept showing a shot of his shoes. I remember thinking at the time: "Those Fred Perry's are rather distinctive, I hope they're not his!"

As to what the police (and the council) can do. I think we need more CCTV. I hate the idea of it. But I hate the idea even more of perpetrators getting away with this feral behaviour.

I was a juror a few years back. Three perps - only one of whom was carrying a weapon (which I'm not going to mention, as it was unusually distinctive and very shocking). All three were (quite rightly) charged with conspiracy to commit murder.

Also, is there anything that can be done to track phones? They have so much gagetry in them like location finding thingies for maps and so on.

And ninthly (or thereabouts) how do you get your phone locked if it is stolen? I know how to do it with credit cards, but didn't know you could do it with phones. Is it just a case of ringing the phone company?

[stuart]

And ninthly (or thereabouts) how do you get your phone locked if it is stolen? I know how to do it with credit cards, but didn't know you could do it with phones. Is it just a case of ringing the phone company?

Yes - just ring the mobile company's Customer Service. There is usually an option on the menu for stolen phones. The block is immediate and, if you are in contract, stops you losing more money so do it quick.

Bit more of a problem if you are abroad ... make a note of number before you go. Google 'stolen phone & your mobile operator'. They usually have a different number (0845/0870 may not work and the shortcode you use from your handset is useless if you no longer have a handset).

Stuart

[Voyageur]

I was at a seminar recently where the western world-wide mid 90s dip in crime was attributed to interventions in the opportunity for criminal acts, such as 'chip and pin' and major advances in vehicle security. Mind you, I am ever aware that stats can be picked and chosen to prove whatever you wish...

[marymck]

Thanks Stuart.