Celebrating Brexit.

[Sydenham Syd]

Lewisham liberal backlash: nuspeak and bullying - when labour members vote to leave Europe blame the tories , when a majority of voters want to leave Europe , tell them they are still wrong .
I wonder how many of you felt like this when the ineffectual Corbyn strode out to ensure that alienated working people , stayed alienated but this time with an out of touch Islington labour grandee with a fawning following .

It is not "insensitive " for those that wanted out to celebrate , it will be hate crime next .......

I have never seen such undermining of the electoral system - lets face it , even with an army of beatific young people saying " I'm in " ,most people were out or not concerned enough about Britain's future to vote .

Fair and square - let's get on with it and a temporary dip in the pound is absolutely not a recession - and what does Bromley's vote say either way ? The people voted against all three main parties and from the gutless whining of certainly tories and labour , who can blame them ? Presumably Libdems are having some kind of internal to decide whether they will bleat or moan or demand a recount .

If the Tories try to leave without leaving , the next phase will make BREXIT look like Coldplay fundraising for orphaned koalas . BREXIT was an expression of anger against mainstream politics , the least the main parties can do is know when they are beaten , shut up , and start listening .

A very good evening
Nigel

A beautiful example of exactly what we face now.
I believe it is you who need to shut up and start listening. If you could even begin to articulate exactly what the leave vote has done then your views would carry weight.
This referendum is not part of the electoral system, it was triggered by it.
Stop being such a sanctimonious duffer and recognise that just because there are a beatific bunch speaking it doesn't mean they are not allowed to interpret this decision for the fiasco it is.
The stats don't lie about the age, geography of where the vote went. That is undeniable.

The world has changed. Britain is no longer a great country and blaming and thus leaving Europe won't get us back to the 50s. We are already behind the curve and will now fall further. There is no doubt that our influence globally has just reduced.

You also seem very self assured that this dip in the pound is some sort of rounding error. I would like to hear your rationale for using the world temporary. I would call this more of a dry humping than a temporary dip. I assume you are on the right side of a pension. How's that looking?

The other thing you have said is that you believe this is a reaction against mainstream politics. Have a look down the road and see that in all likelihood you have replaced one pretty decent Etonian with a barking mad one. If you believe this will change a thing, you are seriously mistaken.

Red tape in Brussels...well, we invented red tape in this country. We feast on the stuff. You are merely killing a fox to let another one in.

Have a deeply ordinary evening.

[Sydenham Syd]

Lewisham liberal backlash: nuspeak and bullying - when labour members vote to leave Europe blame the tories , when a majority of voters want to leave Europe , tell them they are still wrong .
I wonder how many of you felt like this when the ineffectual Corbyn strode out to ensure that alienated working people , stayed alienated but this time with an out of touch Islington labour grandee with a fawning following .

It is not "insensitive " for those that wanted out to celebrate , it will be hate crime next .......

I have never seen such undermining of the electoral system - lets face it , even with an army of beatific young people saying " I'm in " ,most people were out or not concerned enough about Britain's future to vote .

Fair and square - let's get on with it and a temporary dip in the pound is absolutely not a recession - and what does Bromley's vote say either way ? The people voted against all three main parties and from the gutless whining of certainly tories and labour , who can blame them ? Presumably Libdems are having some kind of internal to decide whether they will bleat or moan or demand a recount .

If the Tories try to leave without leaving , the next phase will make BREXIT look like Coldplay fundraising for orphaned koalas . BREXIT was an expression of anger against mainstream politics , the least the main parties can do is know when they are beaten , shut up , and start listening .

A very good evening
Nigel

A beautiful example of exactly what we face now.
I believe it is you who need to shut up and start listening. If you could even begin to articulate exactly what the leave vote has done then your views would carry weight.
This referendum is not part of the electoral system, it was triggered by it.
Stop being such a sanctimonious duffer and recognise that just because there are a beatific bunch speaking it doesn't mean they are not allowed to interpret this decision for the fiasco it is.
The stats don't lie about the age, geography of where the vote went. That is undeniable.

The world has changed. Britain is no longer a great country and blaming and thus leaving Europe won't get us back to the 50s. We are already behind the curve and will now fall further. There is no doubt that our influence globally has just reduced.

You also seem very self assured that this dip in the pound is some sort of rounding error. I would like to hear your rationale for using the world temporary. I would call this more of a dry humping than a temporary dip. I assume you are on the drawdown side of a pension. How's that looking?

The other thing you have said is that you believe this is a reaction against mainstream politics. Have a look down the road and see that in all likelihood you have replaced one pretty decent Etonian with a barking mad one. If you believe this will change a thing, you are seriously mistaken.

Red tape in Brussels...well, we invented red tape in this country. We feast on the stuff. You are merely killing a fox to let another one in.

Have a deeply ordinary evening.

[marymck]

It's frightening the ageist vitriol that the reaction to a democratic vote has unleashed. Many young people (obviously not all) seem to have a staggering sense of entitlement and double standards* in both this and other issues. But if racial identifiers were used instead of ageist slurs, how long would it be before some posts here and elsewhere were taken down?

Lesson in democracy: if you want your vote to count, VOTE.

Lesson in geography: the UK is more than the little, privileged bubble that is London.

* Double standards such as some young people banging on about the older, make do and mend, generation "ruining" the environment while they "need" the latest mobile phones and posing technology ... whatever the cost to the environment and the workforce.*

[Nigel]

Sydenham Syd
Ironic indeed - I post about the hectoring and insulting reaction from Remainers and you respond by ...er ..insultingly me and making assumptions about my age ?

A few facts ;
Never mentioned red tape
No currency dip has ever been permanent
A referendum is part of the electoral process
Cameron is not " fairly decent "
In a democracy I don't need to" shut up"
I see BREXIT as a leap forward
I didn't actually live in the 50s so don't know what it was like personally
The " I'm in " people were BEFORE the vote ( do you see ? )
There was alsways going to be democracy , probably more , after BREXIT so you just find a credible party and leader and vote for them - I didn't cause Johnson to be .

Managing your migrant workforce according to need is what 90% of the world do
Not housing policing or ministering to people we don't need makes economic sense
We are still a huge economy
Most SMEs think they will be better out

Sorry for facts so early in the morning .

Finally , have to admit , your parody of my polite sign off was hilarious

A very good morning
Nigel

[Sydenham Syd]

Big Nige (if I may),

You make it sound like the Bastille has been stormed. This will move nothing forward - it can only go backwards. Marie Antoinette is still feasting on her brioche.

All said and done, there was a direct correlation between who voted for what. London is definitely different to the rest of the country in terms of its demographic, but I certainly wouldn't use the word privileged. London is a lot more diverse for sure.

You used the phrase 'shut up' yourself, just for the record.

You have handed Boris the keys to number 10, or at least given him as good a chance as possible - odd decision.

Who do you actually want in power? You don't want Corbyn, you don't want DC, you don't seem to want Boris. Who then? Clegg, Blair, The Count of Monte Cristo? It's just slightly confusing. You can't pretend to have torn down mainstream politics just because 52% of Britain decided they hated London, ahem Europe. Bonkers.

Your sign off suggest something sage like but so far I am a touch underwhelmed.

[gerispringer]

Not going to put up and shut up. The result wasn't exactly a landslide victory. Will still fight against inequality, selfishness, lying politicians and racism. I am not throwing my toys out of the pram I am not in the pram that is Little Britain. Welcome to the 1930s .

[marymck]

In a democracy, not every result has to be a landslide. Sure, a lot of remainer sympathizers didn't bother to vote, but I know plenty of people who would have voted leave but for believing the hype that the remain camp were a shoo in. Only crosses on the ballot paper get counted.

[stuart]

Lewisham liberal backlash: nuspeak and bullying - when labour members vote to leave Europe blame the tories , when a majority of voters want to leave Europe , tell them they are still wrong .

Yep the same liberal nutters that dominate Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and Tory boroughs of London. Are we on the same planet?

It is not "insensitive " for those that wanted out to celebrate , it will be hate crime next .......

Ridiculous hyperbole is a poor substitute for arguement or fact.

Fair and square - let's get on with it and a temporary dip in the pound is absolutely not a recession

Oh, are you using the Boris model to predict a bounce back? Are you prepared to bet your pension on it?

Not a very good morning unless you are a financier who, like vultures, are already devouring the huge liquidity the central banks are pumping in to 'maintain stability'. And we know how sustainable that is.

No amount of bluster changes the world. Ooops I made a mistake. The Brexit bluster did hoodwink too many reasonable people. Or am I not allowed to share my observations of that without being called a bully?

Stuart

[marymck]

Such doom and gloom from a lot of Chicken Littles.

Nothing has happened yet and the sky isn't falling in.

All that's happened so far is that a bunch of city types and financial speculators have been playing Monopoly (sadly they're allowed play with other people's money, which like sharp knives should be kept away from some people.)

My worry would be that our industry and infrastructure has been so decimated in the last 35 years that there's very little real manufacturing left. We've become a service industry nation. Even the most efficient power station in the country has been closed to bow to EU regulations and nothing has taken its place. The land has been sold to a developer for yet another "luxury" marina. (And why does everything have to be "luxury" or "social" housing? Rhetorical question. It's the great divide.)

But gosh I wish i were 21 now. Europe is so much more than the little EU club and the world is so much more than little Europe. We just need the oomph, initiative and imagination to get on with it.

[Sydenham Syd]

Such doom and gloom from a lot of Chicken Littles.

Nothing has happened yet and the sky isn't falling in.

All that's happened so far is that a bunch of city types and financial speculators have been playing Monopoly (sadly they're allowed play with other people's money, which like sharp knives should be kept away from some people.)

My worry would be that our industry and infrastructure has been so decimated in the last 35 years that there's very little real manufacturing left. We've become a service industry nation. Even the most efficient power station in the country has been closed to bow to EU regulations and nothing has taken its place. The land has been sold to a developer for yet another "luxury" marina. (And why does everything have to be "luxury" or "social" housing? Rhetorical question. It's the great divide.)

But gosh I wish i were 21 now. Europe is so much more than the little EU club and the world is so much more than little Europe. We just need the oomph, initiative and imagination to get on with it.

The last sentence says it all - this country has long since lacked that. I don't quite know how old you are, but 21 plus the 35 above suggests mid-50s. To be honest its your generation that has overseen this shambles, so its about time you let the next generation make a decision for you.

We love a moan in this country. We invented regulation, just like we invented Tarmac. You are defending an indefensible economic argument.

The bottom line is that we are now just littler Britain than the already little Britain we had become.

The sky hasn't fallen in you are right, but there is no doubt that the pandemonium has just started. Such a short sighted decision by those that think they can change things for the so called better - those that own 80% of the assets in this country and those that are the beneficiaries of the most EU handouts.

Done like a kipper.

[admin]

All - I am reluctant to intervene and move this thread to the Pub. But if the ad hominem attacks do not stop that is exactly what I will do. I appreciate that feelings are running high. But please debate the issues. Play the ball not the man.

Admin.

[marymck]

Such doom and gloom from a lot of Chicken Littles.

Nothing has happened yet and the sky isn't falling in.

All that's happened so far is that a bunch of city types and financial speculators have been playing Monopoly (sadly they're allowed play with other people's money, which like sharp knives should be kept away from some people.)

My worry would be that our industry and infrastructure has been so decimated in the last 35 years that there's very little real manufacturing left. We've become a service industry nation. Even the most efficient power station in the country has been closed to bow to EU regulations and nothing has taken its place. The land has been sold to a developer for yet another "luxury" marina. (And why does everything have to be "luxury" or "social" housing? Rhetorical question. It's the great divide.)

But gosh I wish i were 21 now. Europe is so much more than the little EU club and the world is so much more than little Europe. We just need the oomph, initiative and imagination to get on with it.

The last sentence says it all - this country has long since lacked that. I don't quite know how old you are, but 21 plus the 35 above suggests mid-50s. To be honest its your generation that has overseen this shambles, so its about time you let the next generation make a decision for you.

..... Such a short sighted decision by those that think they can change things for the so called better - those that own 80% of the assets in this country and those that are the beneficiaries of the most EU handouts.

Done like a kipper.

OMG! The assumptions!! And the ageism!!!

You are right in one thing: it was (almost) my generation that oversaw "the shambles" by making the big mistake of voting to Join the EEC in the first place. (We've never had a vote on EU membership before now.) In doing so Britain left a lot of Commonwealth nations struggling and cut ties with EFTA.

Not everyone votes for what's best for their pocket. Getting out of the EU may hurt me financially precisely because I'm older, but I believe that in the long run it will be better for the country and the next generation.

But if anything were likely to turn me self centred it would be your comment that I should lose my democratic rights because you think you know best and older people are somehow incapable of making decisions, I really do despair! There's a touch of "Tomorrow belongs to me" in your remark that doesn't sit well in a civilized society.

[marymck]

All - I am reluctant to intervene and move this thread to the Pub. But if the ad hominem attacks do not stop that is exactly what I will do. I appreciate that feelings are running high. But please debate the issues. Play the ball not the man.

Admin.

Hear, hear, Admin. Thank you.

[Eagle]

Mary good to see you back although cannot agree with you.

It was a Black Day indeed last Friday.

I am noticing some regret from people I know who voted Out. They really had no idea what they were voting for.

I voted yes in 75 and Remain last week. As stated I thing ole aged swayed in and kicked the youngsters future in the teeth.

I pray there may be a way out of this debacle., but not sure what,

[maestro]

Well I think Cameron should step aside as he seems to want to dilly-dally over kicking off Article 50, and Roy Hodgson should be appointed in his place to ensure our rapid Euro exit.

[Sydenham Syd]

All - I am reluctant to intervene and move this thread to the Pub. But if the ad hominem attacks do not stop that is exactly what I will do. I appreciate that feelings are running high. But please debate the issues. Play the ball not the man.

Admin.

Hear, hear, Admin. Thank you.

I think you are as guilty as anyone of being ageist...your knuckles were also being rapped.
Well done for admitting the blunder in the first place - it was actually the right decision then, and the wrong decision now - you must have had a traumatic few decades.

[maestro]

I'm starting a petition to get last nights England -v- Iceland game replayed so that we might get the result we want.

Please consider signing it...........

http://sourgrapes/whingers/bahhumbug-lo ... itions.org

[marymck]

All - I am reluctant to intervene and move this thread to the Pub. But if the ad hominem attacks do not stop that is exactly what I will do. I appreciate that feelings are running high. But please debate the issues. Play the ball not the man.

Admin.

Hear, hear, Admin. Thank you.

I think you are as guilty as anyone of being ageist...your knuckles were also being rapped.
Well done for admitting the blunder in the first place - it was actually the right decision then, and the wrong decision now - you must have had a traumatic few decades.

[Sydenham Syd]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... ting-story

Amazing scenes - vote leave and unleash the beast
A different Nigel in Brussels (well I assume it is a different Nigel)

Good lord.

[marymck]

I think you are as guilty as anyone of being ageist...your knuckles were also being rapped.
Well done for admitting the blunder in the first place - it was actually the right decision then, and the wrong decision now - you must have had a traumatic few decades.

I was responding to your suggestion about taking away the right of older people to vote. Had I chosen to be as ageist as you, I might have said that we should remove the voting rights of under 21 year olds, as they lacked the life experience and empathy to make a rational decision. But I am not ageist. I didn't suggest such any such thing, nor would I, and nor do I believe that. I have been very careful not to be ageist in my posts and I am not ageist in my beliefs. There are some stupid and some self centred people across all age groups; some intelligent and altruistic people voted out and some intelligent and altruistic people voted in. We don't all have to march to the same drum.

Your comments about what you see as a blunder are muddled. Yes, with hindsight it was a blunder to join the EEC. And you have no knowledge of my life or of any trauma I may have suffered, so I'll thank you not to make personal jibes.

(Edited to stress that I don't believe ANYONE should have their voting rights removed because of age.)

Is this all being moved to the pub now? Or are going to do what the country should and move on?