Sydenham Market is back on 2nd Saturday of the month

[metter90]

I've lived in Sydenham 18 months and I didnt know we had a monthly market. Am I just being very unobservant or is there a lack of advertising going on? When is the next one?

x

[broken_shaman]

I've traded at the market several times in the past. Some of the few food sellers at the market I spoke to when it moved from Sunday to Saturday spoke of the conflict with the Horniman, because some of them already had a commitment there. And there is indeed plenty of food on sale at the Hornman every week and very little at Sydenham. And the successful markets mentioned rely on food, either completely or as a central theme.

But anyway. The one consistent thing about the market seems to be the sheer number of experts, so I'm sure it will flourish. Perhaps another few thousand leaflets will solve the problem.

[Pally]

As Lee says there are "experts" in terms of companies who specialise in market development, who have been involved in some other local markets.

[Chris Best]

The Sydenham Market is on tomorrow from 11am to 5pm with a variety of food and craft stalls. The hot food stalls include the return of the popular Indian street food that sold out last month.

We have a foot stomping groups of Irish musicians - The Reel Thing - expect Bodhran, whistle, flute, banjo, fiddle and spoons! Come and hear the free entertainment from 12 - 1 and 1.30 - 2.30. Last month Brockley Ukulele were well received and in April Les Zoings marched up and down the high street.

Of course the market could have more traders and the regular traders are networking to get more stall holders. Lewisham Markets take the bookings and an officer attends on the day to issue the street trading licence that is required to trade in a public place - or up to 7 metres from any street. A number of other markets in the borough take place on private land including Horniman, Brockley and Blackheath and do not necessarily require individual trading licences.

West Norwood Feast is a great success and was able to develop with the help of £1.3 million from Round 2 of the Outer London Fund. The Sydenham market is the legacy of the Portas Pilot that received a total of £80k from the Mayor of London and the bulk of that went on the pop up shops.

The Sydenham Pop-up at Here For Good has a great offer with Home and Fashion stall holders.

If anyone wants to volunteer to improve the market then talk to Jayne on her designer jewellery stall tomorrow. At the moment there is no funding to employ a worker to curate the market and take the next step to develop along the high street and move to a weekly event. The cost of the market stall covers the set up costs.

[Nigel]

Agree the Feast model is excellent - the music and food is a big part of the draw for me - i saw the excellent "Los Domingos " whilst munching a really nice curry in a naan .
If we could import that as a whole or in part we would be motoring
A very good afternoon
Nigel

[alywin]

Oops, missed it again

[sydres]

So past by the market today - 4 stalls which is a bit depressing.

When are the representatives of SEE3 going to realise the market venture needs some outside (professional) help? And please no more replies stating that all that is required is more volunteers....Sydenham wake up and have more ambition.

[Chris Best]

Agreed that the Sydenham market needs a review. Lewisham Markets Service manage the street markets at Catford, Deptford, Lewisham and Sydenham. A market trader needs to register with LB Lewisham as the pitch is on a public space and the stalls need a casual traders licence.

SEE3 own the stalls and liaise with LB Lewisham on publicity and with Sydenham Arts on the free entertainment as past of High Street Happenings.

There is no doubt that we need more market traders and regular bookings so that we can promote the street stalls. If you want to trade then contact the Lewisham Market Service - markets are on 12 November and 10 December - £25 if you bring your own stall and £35 if you want to use a SEE3 stall. We have sponsorship for the entertainment so we need support from local residents. Today the performances by the South London Samba band were loud, energetic, exciting and a crowd pleaser.

[butters]

So past by the market today - 4 stalls which is a bit depressing.

When are the representatives of SEE3 going to realise the market venture needs some outside (professional) help? And please no more replies stating that all that is required is more volunteers....Sydenham wake up and have more ambition.

Oh my gosh, THAT was the market?!

I did enjoy the drum performance out front, although it did put me off going into Lloyds Bank. I didn't fancy a massive queue, trying to open an account and the drumming in my ear all in one go

[Chris Best]

For the last two markets of the year Lewisham Council are offering a discount of £10 when stall holders book both markets on Saturday 12 November and Saturday 10 December. The offer is £60 for both months with the market stall set up and ready to trade plus electricity if needed for hot food or Christmas lights. Details of how to book below:
http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/inmyarea/mar ... arket.aspx

SEE3 are working with Sydenham Arts to provide the free entertainment at the market - we are looking forward to a brass band at the December market to get us in the mood for Christmas.

If there is no demand for the market then Lewisham Council will not run it next year - a case of use it or lose it. Stall holders will book if they think they will have the support of residents - and with Christmas looming this could be a great time to get more traders and bring festive footfall to the high street.

[sydres]

Haven't witnessed the birth and slow death of the monthly market venture on Sydenham high street, I think the last paragraph says all there is to say about the Council's approach and SEE3. Use it or lose it - did I read that right?

Unfortunately one has to spell it out: you have to offer people something WORTH GOING TO given the numerous events going on locally every weekend around the borders of Sydenham. Numerous attempts of help and advice FROM PROFESSIONALS have been shared on this forum but it seems the council would rather use what free publicity the market generates for a council photo opportunity rather than get serious about making it work. You can't expect residents to turn up for a few meagre stalls simply through good will alone?

A rethink is needed and perhaps a different location - Mayow Park anyone?

[harrym]

Sydenham market and the high street as a whole are suffering through lack of any sensible strategy. All around us others are flourishing and it seems a shame we're not.

The market needs to decide what it is as the best ones specialise - ie Feast food or Crafty fox - great curated craft makers. At the moment (this is no reflection on the individual stall holders) it looks like an amateurish shambles passing by and I wouldn't bother to stop.

It might be interesting to use to Sydenham centre as an indoor market location - maybe vintage and modern craft/design (a bit mid century modern) with some pop up food - to echo upper Kirkdale.

I think unless there's a group of really engaged people running it, it will be very hard for Sydenham market to succeed. Feast might have benefitted from investment to help it grow but they had a clear vision and very proactive group to achieve that.

[alywin]

Unfortunately one has to spell it out: you have to offer people something WORTH GOING TO given the numerous events going on locally every weekend around the borders of Sydenham. Numerous attempts of help and advice FROM PROFESSIONALS have been shared on this forum but it seems the council would rather use what free publicity the market generates for a council photo opportunity rather than get serious about making it work. You can't expect residents to turn up for a few meagre stalls simply through good will alone?

Hear, hear! As I've said before, where's the incentive for me to hang around half the morning to support it when I need to be elsewhere?

[sydres]

Unfortunately the market is located on a high street that at the moment is not that nice a place to dwell or linger. There is too much through traffic, frequent and sporadic flytipping and a general shabbiness, which is surprising given much of it is designated a conservation area. To attract people to places you have to make them want to go there - this applies as much to everyday essential items as it does to markets.

Threatening to pull the market altogether as a strategy to force people to go is fruitless if there is little worth seeing or buying. The members of the Council involved in this project perhaps need to be more humble and ask themselves how things can be improved and whether they have the right skills to take the venture forward.

[Chris Best]

Great see some discussion - and a few points to consider
- the Council have a Street Markets Team who manage the Catford, Deptford and Lewisham markets as well as Sydenham. They have vast experience of running the daily markets and also let pitches around the borough including Angie's Flowers - a successful street trader who has been operating a daily flower stall in Sydenham for more years than I can remember. There is a question of frequency and a monthly market is good for some casual traders but for others weekly or daily trade is important to make a living.
- location - there are electric points for hot food stalls at Station Approach, Venner and Queensthorpe Squares and the market traders are discussing a change of location for November to Queensthorpe.
- weather conditions - the outdoor market is often hit by rain so an indoor market is being considered by some of the traders for Saturday 26 November as part of lighting up the Christmas Tree on Queensthorpe Square. I think the traders would welcome some feedback on whether residents would walk upstairs to the main hall. The licensing conditions are not the same as being on a Council owned outdoor space.
- Sydenham Arts would prefer to be indoors to use the stage at The Sydenham Centre for the free entertainment currently being organised as part of High Street Happenings for market days. Ideas welcome on activities in the high street.

It is the traders working with the Council's Market Team who are taking the market forward - local Cllrs are supportive of promoting a vibrant high street. The Sydenham Assembly Fund of £15,000 is currently open for community bids to improve the locality - a maximum of £2,500 per bid so open to projects to develop local issues.

[sydres]

Cllr Best,

Thank you for your response but I'm sad to say it's a pretty good deflection of the issues at hand. The Council Market Team may well have experience of running markets but it is quite clear it is not generating the results one would normally expect.

A part indoor / outdoor market centred around Queensthorpe might well be the way forward but it needs the Council Team to get a bit more proactive on promotion and generate a buzz that will make people stop and want to shop.

For me, it's the attitude of use it or lose it that saddens me the most as if to say if people don't turn up regularly to an event that is at best average then the event will be taken away as some form of punishment. If the Council can't run even a moderately successful market, perhaps one of the many companies that run one in South London can show them how to do it.

But I guess the reality is the Council would rather give up than admit it is in some way deficient?

[dickp]

Quite. I now live in Cardiff, but am also still a regular visitor to Sydenham. I therefore continue to take an interest in this issue. One weekend, I have this mad idea of grabbing lunch with some friends at a great Sydenham market, and then going for a pint in the Greyhound. Well, you can dream, right?

Even now, I just don't understand Lewisham's unwillingness to even consider handing over control of Sydenham market to any one of the several market managing companies who week in, week out, rain or shine, currently organise some of the far more successful suburban markets across South London. On a previous post on this same thread, I listed several of these operating companies, including their contact details.

Here in Cardiff, three of our suburbs each have a WEEKLY market, organised on sequential days (Friday - Sunday). Every single one of these markets are hugely popular, and put Sydenham's to shame. They're all organised by one not-for-profit company, the Riverside Community Markets Association (see http://www.riversidemarket.org.uk/about.aspx )

The suburbs of Swansea can't quite match Cardiff's frequency - but they still manage two more market per month than Sydenham. They have THREE markets per month, rotated on a weekly basis between suburbs. Again, they're all organised by one not-for-profit outfit, this one called Uplands Markets (see http://www.uplandsmarket.com/about-us.html ).

So there we go: There are multiple markets in South London, each organised by single companies. The same model works, and works well, in cities elsewhere in the UK. So what, in Lord's name, makes Sydenham so blinking different?

[Pally]

So there we go: There are multiple markets in South London, each organised by single companies. The same model works, and works well, in cities elsewhere in the UK. So what, in Lord's name, makes Sydenham so blinking different?

I think a lot of people are wondering that re Sydenham! Not just about the market either! Look at the difference with the way Forest Hill is developing as an area, compared to Sydenham! Why?

[sydres]

I agree and it's strange as both are in the same borough (so same Council) and very close to one another. However, beyond the high street I feel there is little to choose between. Both areas are leafy with good transport links, nice housing stock and a strong sense of community spirit.

For me, the two main thorns in Sydenham's side are the seemingly never ending saga of the Greyhound and the state of the High Street.

[Pally]

I agree and it's strange as both are in the same borough (so same Council) and very close to one another. However, beyond the high street I feel there is little to choose between. Both areas are leafy with good transport links, nice housing stock and a strong sense of community spirit.

For me, the two main thorns in Sydenham's side are the seemingly never ending saga of the Greyhound and the state of the High Street.

In FH the traders seem to "lead" the developments, and are certainly engaged in them. In Sydenham that does not appear to be the case