Election 2015 Issues

[_HB]

I'm not sure you understand how tax bands work...

What about people like me who earn well but don't work hard? Is it OK to take my earnings? Or just the hard working? How would we decide which is which?

[Robin Orton]

What was lucky anout working hard?

In my case, the luck was to be born physically healthy and intellectually able, into a family who provided me with a happy and stimulating childhood, who ensured that I had a good education, and who instilled a Protestant work ethic into me. So hard work has always come naturally to me.

I concede that things might look a bit different from the perspective of people who have not had these advantages but have nevertheless worked hard, overcome difficulties and done well for themselves. They might well want to claim some credit for having done so. But even in their case I suspect that inherited character traits may have played a large part in enabling them to succeed. Are they morally entitled to resent contributing to the support of people for whom life has not gone so well? For them to say, I guess.

[somerandombloke]

...people who have not had these advantages but have nevertheless worked hard, overcome difficulties and done well for themselves. They might well want to claim some credit for having done so.

I feel that I fall into thos categry I have had to battle to get to where I am especially against ignorant and prejudiced educators and although I am by nature a lazy bastard and would much rather be lyin on the sofa watching films Im not afraid of hard work (When I was off sick I claimed and was paid a pittance most of what kept me afloat during that time was acutally my savings). However the guys who whetehr they work hard or not make billions then refuse to hnd over what righfully belongs to taxation their the ones as really piss me off. Especially whn there chums in the Tories make it easy to do so by not chasing them for tax and at the same time demonising so called scroungers. That is utterly unfair.

An as for pepoole who by no fault of there own they cant make it then I have no problem with giving them a helping hand.

[robbieduncan]

I'm not sure you understand how tax bands work...

What about people like me who earn well but don't work hard? Is it OK to take my earnings? Or just the hard working? How would we decide which is which?

I understand very well how tax bands work. I know very well (even though this does not apply to me) that when you start earning over £100,000 the effective tax rate is 60% for £20k as you have a tapering of the personal allowance. I simlpy do not see how that is fair.

As to some of the other comments I am happy to help those who truely cannot help themselves but I feel to much is offered for too little to those who can or could have (for example those who choose to leave school with no qualifications despite being intelligent enough to get some). I have no doubt I will be told these people are not common, that they are the overrepresented minority of cases, but I'm not convinced that is the case.

As to the partisan party politics of who's friends are tax dodgers I suspect every party has tax dodging doners. Ever the whiter than white greens got caught out.

[Eagle]

SDB

All people who EVADE legal tax are scroungers , whether individuals or corporations and all should be chased and prosecuted.

I think you will find this Government have been better at obtaining tax evaders from both categories. However you still
chant the same only untrue party line


God be with you.

I trust you are paying your full tax on your inherited houses.

[somerandombloke]

...for example those who choose to leave school with no qualifications despite being intelligent enough to get some...

I left school with no qualifications. I am intelligent. The education system is geared towards passing exams and some people just cannot.

[robbieduncan]

...for example those who choose to leave school with no qualifications despite being intelligent enough to get some...

I left school with no qualifications. I am intelligent. The education system is geared towards passing exams and some people just cannot.

But did you decide to live a life on benefits or did you use the intelligence to get a job/make a living? I agree that education system does not work for some hence my initial list including vocational traiing/more pratical outcomes. My issue is not with those that do not get qualifiactions, rather those who use this as an excuse for not trying to make a living and expecting the state to fund their lifestyle for the rest of their lives.

[somerandombloke]

SDB

All people who EVADE legal tax are scroungers...

I trust you are paying your full tax on your inherited houses.

Yeah its the definition of legal tax I have a problem with. This lot have made it way too easily to evade tax legally especially since the whole bloody world was plunged into recession.

And yes I certainly do pay all the taxes I owe. I believe in taxation and I belive in social reposnsibility. But you certainloy seem to be fixated on my flats!!!!!!

And I agree with you robbie dincan its just you made it sound like anyone who left school without a qualification was suspect!!

[Eagle]

So the Labour Government from 97 to 10 was far more strict on all tax evasion.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really do not think the facts match your partisan bravado SDB.

[somerandombloke]

So the Labour Government from 97 to 10 was far more strict on all tax evasion.

Sadly this isnt true either. Though a cursery glance on the net will show you that corporation tax lets the big boys get away with even more murder than before since 2010.

[_HB]

I have no doubt I will be told these people are not common, that they are the overrepresented minority of cases, but I'm not convinced that is the case.

I'm not going to bother. But if it really is one of your main election issues then maybe you should do a little bit of digging and find out for yourself. You may be surprised with what you discover.

[robbieduncan]

I have no doubt I will be told these people are not common, that they are the overrepresented minority of cases, but I'm not convinced that is the case.

I'm not going to bother. But if it really is one of your main election issues then maybe you should do a little bit of digging and find out for yourself. You may be surprised with what you discover.

My election issues were in my first post in this thread. This is more a symptom than a cause.

[_HB]

OK - I think the same argument applies. If we're talking symptoms there are great pustulating wounds on the face of this country. Benefit "scroungers" are but a slightly annoying itch.

[somerandombloke]

Ewwww. But yes nice analogy.

[robbieduncan]

Is one of those wounds not the benefits system that makes not working more pallatable that actually getting a job? Why is benefit reform ideallogically resisted by Labour?

[somerandombloke]

... the benefits system that makes not working more pallatable that actually getting a job...

Is this true? Really really true? I mean I got an absolute pittance when I was off sick (£59.70 a week), so I had to dig into my savings, but I don't actually know if one could survive on the dole. Can you provide figures? And does pallatable inlcude the fact that you'd have to keep doing restarts and provide incontrovertable evidence that you've been doing everythign youc an to get a job etc etc? Seriously Im not taking the piss Im just intrigued that it would be possible.

[Eagle]

One is not meant to be able to survive anything other than short term on the dole, the idea is get out there and get any job going.

[robbieduncan]

... the benefits system that makes not working more pallatable that actually getting a job...

Is this true? Really really true? I mean I got an absolute pittance when I was off sick (£59.70 a week), so I had to dig into my savings, but I don't actually know if one could survive on the dole. Can you provide figures? And does pallatable inlcude the fact that you'd have to keep doing restarts and provide incontrovertable evidence that you've been doing everythign youc an to get a job etc etc? Seriously Im not taking the piss Im just intrigued that it would be possible.

I genuinly don't know how to play the system as I've never used it. I think the main trick is to get more than one type of benefit. I have certainly seen numerous articles from believable sources (i.e. not the Daily Mail). This seems a good one showing that for many work does not pay, or at least full time work does not: http://www.jrf.org.uk/publications/universal-credit-mis

A quote from the summary: "Many families will have limited incentive to move from part-time to full-time work, especially if they require childcare. Disposable income 'plateaus' at as little as ten hours a week, as UC reduces sharply with additional earnings."

[_HB]

Why is benefit reform ideallogically resisted by Labour?

You'd have to ask someone who knows or cares about Labour.

Is one of those wounds not the benefits system that makes not working more pallatable that actually getting a job?

It's a fair question. I don't believe that this is true except maybe at the extremes of existing policy. But even if it is true I don't believe that it is a major problem in the context of other issues that this country needs to tackle. And maybe a handful of claimants gaming the system is the price that we need to pay to ensure there is a safety net for the truly needy?

[Robin Orton]

Why is benefit reform ideallogically resisted by Labour?

You'd have to ask someone who knows or cares about Labour.

I have a lingering sentimental attachment to Labour.

I guess it's because 'benefit reform' is a euphemism for 'benefit cut', and Labour are (or were) instinctively a party who stands up for poor and marginalised people.