This was covered here: http://sydenham.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1275
In view of the circumstances please can we await the coroner's report before making any further comment on this incident.
Admin
Road Accidents
stuart wrote: Back to kennyb2 - I use the M20 from the tunnel regulary. I don't find it particulary dangerous. The M1, M40 & M4 I find more challenging and more likely to be closed by a RTA. Do you have figures to suggest otherwise?
Stuart
In my experience, as a very regular user of the M20, a former travel news provider for the radio industry and as a presenter on the local station in Maidstone, I can confirm that that road has more than the average number of accidents, and they nearly always involve, either directly or indirectly, HGVs, often of foreign origin.
I would estimate that the section between the M25 and the channel tunnel is affected by a serious incident at least 3 times a week and I have witnessed more accidents on the M20 than any other motorway I have regularly used.
From my experience working in London, monitoring all the major roads in the South East, I would say the M20 rivals the M25 for serious incidents, and I find traffic conditions there so dangerous that I take the train when I can.
I think Sydenham Road has to be one of the most dangerous to cross locally. The traffic is horrendous and in light of the accident last friday, I think this is highlighted.
The pedestrian crossing at the top of the hill on sydenham road (near the station) is a stupid idea. Cars get frustrated, and either don't stop or are sitting there for ages as pedestrians continually filter across the road after having come off of the train. It is also not easily visible - especially if you don't know the area.
The sensible thing would have been to have put traffic lights for cars to stop, either side of the hill and to leave the hill for the crossing pedestrians. This would also allow pedestrians to have their turn to cross and also the cars. It would also stop vehicles rolling down the hill, when they are too lazy to use their handbrakes, and lessen the risk of injury to the pedestrians.
I can only presume that the council is only interested in the funds available for such things, and don't do 'proper' research into the area and the problems surrounding it. My children go to school on sydenham road and it is a horrible road to cross. The majority of crossings are miles apart, and they are not adequate for the number of pedestrians who use the road.
Or better yet, don't bother with the lights near the station, build us a bridge. That way everyone could cross safely. It would never happen though, because like I said previously it all comes down to funding. Maybe we should all bombard Lewisham Council with letters demanding better crossing facilities on Sydenham road. If you go down to the lower sydenham end, the are millions of traffic lights. Why is upper sydenham being neglected??
Also, my condolences to the family of the lady who died last friday. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
The pedestrian crossing at the top of the hill on sydenham road (near the station) is a stupid idea. Cars get frustrated, and either don't stop or are sitting there for ages as pedestrians continually filter across the road after having come off of the train. It is also not easily visible - especially if you don't know the area.
The sensible thing would have been to have put traffic lights for cars to stop, either side of the hill and to leave the hill for the crossing pedestrians. This would also allow pedestrians to have their turn to cross and also the cars. It would also stop vehicles rolling down the hill, when they are too lazy to use their handbrakes, and lessen the risk of injury to the pedestrians.
I can only presume that the council is only interested in the funds available for such things, and don't do 'proper' research into the area and the problems surrounding it. My children go to school on sydenham road and it is a horrible road to cross. The majority of crossings are miles apart, and they are not adequate for the number of pedestrians who use the road.
Or better yet, don't bother with the lights near the station, build us a bridge. That way everyone could cross safely. It would never happen though, because like I said previously it all comes down to funding. Maybe we should all bombard Lewisham Council with letters demanding better crossing facilities on Sydenham road. If you go down to the lower sydenham end, the are millions of traffic lights. Why is upper sydenham being neglected??
Also, my condolences to the family of the lady who died last friday. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
-
georgemichael
- Posts: 51
- Joined: 28 Aug 2007 20:15
- Location: sydenham
I think the council are taking safety solutions on Sydenham Road seriously, but they are dragging their heels at the moment IMHO.
There are apparently 3 design solutions on the drawing board, which includes lights on the railway bridge and equal spacing of crossings in the 3 main zones of Sydenham Road.
Unfortunately, I can't see anything happening until 2010, to coincide with the ELL extension. They foresee a huge explosion of visitors and residents to the area
The most practical way of bringing it forward, (as long as they do it properly!) is to write to our local councillors: Chris Best, Marion and Seamus with our concerns. I'm sure they, too are aware of the recent accident.
There are apparently 3 design solutions on the drawing board, which includes lights on the railway bridge and equal spacing of crossings in the 3 main zones of Sydenham Road.
Unfortunately, I can't see anything happening until 2010, to coincide with the ELL extension. They foresee a huge explosion of visitors and residents to the area
The most practical way of bringing it forward, (as long as they do it properly!) is to write to our local councillors: Chris Best, Marion and Seamus with our concerns. I'm sure they, too are aware of the recent accident.
glad Rebelmc has experienced the same conditions.
One has to travel in the night time say between midnight and dawn to get the real feel of a motorway given over to entirely HGV traffic of that kind.
But getting back to the discussion re hazards on the roads of Se London the point I was trying to make was this.....
When I I returned to SE26 a couple times in August, for family reasons, I could not keep up with erratically signed bus lanes, with no apparent logic to times of operation, road surfaces that are covered with meaningless markings and stripes, red lines, yellow lines, traffic light popping up every 1000 yards or less, cameras for all purposes, massive direction signs often badly placed or obscuring other signs, signs directing who- knows -who to who -knows -where, none of which seemed to be relevant to any thing. I, as someone who has driven all sorts of vehiclesfor most of 50 years, found it all very wearing and confusing, and I thought I was familar with the area.
The whole area is oversigned to a massive extent, most of it un-necessary
Now in place of me, imagine the driver is poorly educated, foreign born, oft times near illiterate, struggling with a foreign language, made worse if it is not a latinate based script, has had probably only minmal driver training in his own country and I maintain you have a recipe for disaster on the roads.
Three times this fortnight I have been accosted in the lanes of Wiltshire by 3 different skip lorry drivers looking for a site nearby, whose technique for getting directions was to hang the delivery note out the window and point to it, barely unable to comprehend directions in English.
In Bristol where the bus company was paid to employ east european bus drivers, the joke now is that you can get anywhere in Bristol by bus, but it won't necessarily be where the bus is meant to go.
The whole traffic scenario in London scares me witless, and I`m glad I don't have to face it any more.
A frustrated, irritated and confused driver is an accident waiting to happen, usually soon.
And I have to say that the likes of the Mayor of London and his ignorance have made things a good deal worse.
One has to travel in the night time say between midnight and dawn to get the real feel of a motorway given over to entirely HGV traffic of that kind.
But getting back to the discussion re hazards on the roads of Se London the point I was trying to make was this.....
When I I returned to SE26 a couple times in August, for family reasons, I could not keep up with erratically signed bus lanes, with no apparent logic to times of operation, road surfaces that are covered with meaningless markings and stripes, red lines, yellow lines, traffic light popping up every 1000 yards or less, cameras for all purposes, massive direction signs often badly placed or obscuring other signs, signs directing who- knows -who to who -knows -where, none of which seemed to be relevant to any thing. I, as someone who has driven all sorts of vehiclesfor most of 50 years, found it all very wearing and confusing, and I thought I was familar with the area.
The whole area is oversigned to a massive extent, most of it un-necessary
Now in place of me, imagine the driver is poorly educated, foreign born, oft times near illiterate, struggling with a foreign language, made worse if it is not a latinate based script, has had probably only minmal driver training in his own country and I maintain you have a recipe for disaster on the roads.
Three times this fortnight I have been accosted in the lanes of Wiltshire by 3 different skip lorry drivers looking for a site nearby, whose technique for getting directions was to hang the delivery note out the window and point to it, barely unable to comprehend directions in English.
In Bristol where the bus company was paid to employ east european bus drivers, the joke now is that you can get anywhere in Bristol by bus, but it won't necessarily be where the bus is meant to go.
The whole traffic scenario in London scares me witless, and I`m glad I don't have to face it any more.
A frustrated, irritated and confused driver is an accident waiting to happen, usually soon.
And I have to say that the likes of the Mayor of London and his ignorance have made things a good deal worse.
Maybe Sydenham should adopt the scheme that operates in parts of Holland. Where there are no road markings, lights, crossings, signs or even kerbs.
Apparentley it forces traffic to drive a lot slower as they need to be more aware of pedestrians. The council in Kensington are trying to introduce it to some streets, so lets sit back and see what happens there.
Apparentley it forces traffic to drive a lot slower as they need to be more aware of pedestrians. The council in Kensington are trying to introduce it to some streets, so lets sit back and see what happens there.
In reply to Jules' post, regrettably some people will always drive like idiots on what is, after all, a high street (Sydenham Road) not just a link road. Some even speed up to make sure they don't have to slow down for people.
What would help and presumably cost little would be to change the timing of the pedestrian crossing lights just down from Newlands Park (from the butchers to the post office), which take forever to change. There's no wonder people jay-walk across.
Also, the central crossing island at the Newlands Park junction is so high that one has to push a buggie around it. Doh!
What would help and presumably cost little would be to change the timing of the pedestrian crossing lights just down from Newlands Park (from the butchers to the post office), which take forever to change. There's no wonder people jay-walk across.
Also, the central crossing island at the Newlands Park junction is so high that one has to push a buggie around it. Doh!
Scary
I get reay scared when I cross the zebra crossing on my way to work, the car drivers look at you like your in the pedestrian has no right to walk over to the other side.
One morning I was cipped by a car but the car did'nt stop lucky it just brushed m as I ran accross the zebra crossing !
One morning I was cipped by a car but the car did'nt stop lucky it just brushed m as I ran accross the zebra crossing !
Re: Scary
YOU SHOULD NEVER RUN! ............SEE BELOWJosepth wrote:I get reay scared when I cross the zebra crossing on my way to work, the car drivers look at you like your in the pedestrian has no right to walk over to the other side.
One morning I was cipped by a car but the car did'nt stop lucky it just brushed me as I ran accross the zebra crossing !
Learn the Green Cross Code or watch it here:- http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/film ... _code3.htm
THE GREEN CROSS CODE
1. Think First
Find the safest place to cross, then stop
If possible, cross the road at: subways, footbridges, islands, Zebra, Pelican and traffic light crossings or where there is a police officer, school crossing patrol or traffic warden.
If you can't find any good crossing places like these, choose a place where you can see clearly along the roads in all directions, and where drivers can see you.
Never cross on sharp bends or just before the top of a hill.
2. Stop
Stand on the pavement near the kerb.
Give yourself lots of time to have a good look all around.
Stand a little way back from the kerb - where you can still be away from the traffic, but where you can still see if anything is coming.
3. Use your eyes and ears
Look all around for traffic and listen.
Look in every direction.
Listen carefully because you can sometimes hear traffic before you can see it.
4. Wait until it's safe to cross
If traffic is coming, let it pass.
Do not cross unless there is a safe gap and you are sure there is plenty of time.
If you are not sure, don't cross.
5. Look and Listen
When it is safe, walk straight across the road.
Always walk across, never run.
6. Arrive Alive
Keep looking and listening for traffic while you cross.
Sydenham road/accidents
I have only recently noticed just how fast some cars move along Sydenham road at times, esp in the rush hour (only occasionally walk along the high street at this time). If there is any gap at all they accelerate - even more reason to plant trees and change pavement styles etc to try and keep it moving, but more slowly, which some research has shown can work. We have been told that the plans for regeneration will try and incoporate these. It's just a shame we will have to wait for so long for improvements to the very dangerous (and slow) Newlands Park, post office and Mayow road crossings.