Going over old ground - The Hound that is Grey

[Tim Lund]

Where would that be?

...

Lets be positive!

I've heard a rumour that someone managed to convert an old post office into a pub not too far from here

[Tim Lund]

The pub will be smaller and I think more sustainable as a small business

Do you have evidence for smaller pubs being more sustainable?

who would have seen the Dolphin as having a future five years ago until the excellent Michael and Violetta rocked up ?

Yes - Michael and Violetta are very welcome entrepreneurs - let's have more of them, and listen to their ideas of where a pub might work.

So why did Antic walk away?

[leenewham]

The only interesting building I can think of in a decent location in Sydenham that would be ripe for conversion to a pub is the curent externally empty shell that is the Greyhound pub.

Most other interesting buildings in Sydenham have been pretty much destroyed:
The Children's Hospital
The Granada Cinema
The Original Nabourhood Centre
The buildings of Kirkdale

Aside form the old sorting office, which isn't on the high street, any real character has been pretty much gone unless we get a bank (but the last real chance of that which was in a brilliant location is now Peddars estate agents…yawn yawn yawn).

The Sylvan Post if a great little bar, with great food and Antic have brilliantly used the vaults and recycled to counters etc inside.

[Tim Lund]

I wasn't only thinking of conversions, although the future of the old Sorting Office crossed my mind. If there was to be New Greyhound in an exising building elsewhere, I think a rebranding for the Two Halves is most plausible. I was thinking more generally - given the demand for a Hound that is Grey. in that kind of location, why is it so difficult for developers to put together the deals which will deliver it, and why should anything new be inferior?

[leenewham]

why is it so difficult for developers to put together the deals which will deliver it, and why should anything new be inferior?

I have no idea. They probably want too much money.

Why should anything new be inferior. Well, it shouldn't, there are some great new developments but most aren't, mostly due to the race to extract as much profit as possible from every project.

[Tim Lund]

Why should anything new be inferior. Well, it shouldn't, there are some great new developments but most aren't, mostly due to the race to extract as much profit as possible from every project.

I make the general point that this is too simplistic a response on the parallel thread I started yesterday, Saving Pubs / Housing People. In this particular context, comparing Sydenham with other local centres blessed by the new London Overground, we should ask ourselves if Sydenham has been blighted by particularly greedy developers, or a particularly difficult local environment.

[G-Man]

Here here Rod.

[Tim Lund]

How happy might we all be if Antic took over the Two Halves and called it the either The Greyhound or the New Greyhound?

[leenewham]

Almost as happy as if they took over the actual Greyhound and called it 'The Greyhound'.

The Two Halfs is going to be retail isn't it?

[G-Man]

Apparently so, that's what Chris Best said. I worry about what sort of retail outlet will go there though as it's such a big space. Let's hope it's something decent. Although I fear what it might be.

Antic did look at the pub but for whatever reason didn't take it, or so I heard.

[simon]

Its worth rememering that until about 15 years ago the Two Halfs site was actually retail. A carpet shop last time I think. None of the food/pub offers on the site since have thrived.

Its also worth remembering that the Greyhound didn't fail as a pub business; simply the freeholder was made an offer they couldn't refuse. Purelake otained permission for the development on the condition that they kept the pub, albeit in a reduced state, and they need to be kept to their oligations.

[Whiftoff]

Can't believe people are suggesting that it should be pulled down. I like open space but there are plenty of parks in SE26. What there isn't is many place worth going out. I've been looking foward to a few beers here after work for ages. Sydenham really needs this as a decent pub.

[Tim Lund]

Is it the only place for the pub we want? Is it the best place? It would be good to know where someone who could actually make is happen, and put his/her money at risk to do so, would be the best place. For very good reasons, we will only get answers to such questions on this Forum by following the publicly announced investment (non) decisions of the likes of Antic.

[Whiftoff]

Well I think it’s a good place. Right next to the station to take advantage of the commuter footfall. All I know is that I’ve been living here since 2007 and the greyhound has always been boarded up. How much longer do we have to wait for things to happen? It won’t be as big as it use to be but does that really matter?

[Tim Lund]

The location near the station is good, but the size is the problem.

I walked round it this afternoon, and I don't agree that the area between it and the housing will be a muggers' alley.

Does anyone know anything about when the ground floor retail will be let? I guess the unresolved future of the pub building is not helping.

[mrchives]

Whoever at the council approved this application in the first place and then allow it to fail should be sacked.
Plain and simple.

Cllr Best what are your comments on yet another failure by local government to champion another idea and then see it fail whilst seemingly looking the other way.

[leenewham]

Who said the greyhound is too small?

The Greyhound is 2670sq feet PLUS the basement.
It is £40,000 to let or £425k according to the last ad on Acorn.

The Bridge House Tavern is quite small in Penge, as is the Sparrowhawk in Crystal Palace.

In comparison, an ex pub and now noodle place in Deptford which is 2858sq feet and £37,500 pa with A3 use.

A quick look online reveals this:
THE FINISH PUB, 142 LYNTON ROAD, SE1
Type: Development
Date: March 2010
Size: 2,675 SQ FT
Rent: £750,000
Term: Freehold

In the late 1990's JD Wetherspoon pubs were, one average, 3,300 sq feet. And they are massive!

[JeeBee]

The Bridge House Tavern does have a large outdoors area.

The Greyhound is in a great location for a pub - there's nothing that side of the station for a quick drink (I hesitate to call the Railway a pub...). As long as it is a decent quality establishment, not a naff limited range pub anyway.

Alternatively, the wedding shop could make a good Wetherspoons, and I have a feeling that there is a lot of space within that building for such an establishment to spread out.

[Tim Lund]

Who said the greyhound is too small?

Well, me, sort of, though I used the more guarded language of 'size is a problem'. Of course there will be successful pubs smaller than this, and still could be here, but I think in general size help - and having space outside, as have the Dolphin, Golden Lion and The Bridge House Tavern. I was also going on what I thought I'd read here about size being a significant factor in Antic walking away, but I might be wrong.

The Greyhound is 2,670sq feet PLUS the basement.
It is £40,000 to let or £425k according to the last ad on Acorn.

The Bridge House Tavern is quite small in Penge, as is the Sparrowhawk in Crystal Palace.

In comparison, an ex pub and now noodle place in Deptford which is 2,858sq feet and £37,500 pa with A3 use.

I don't know where that would be in Deptford, but a lower rental on a larger space in a more central location suggests the rental being asked for the Greyhound should at least be negotiable.

[leenewham]

It was Noodle King, on the main road a fair walk from the station and the high street, near Freindly Street. It's no-where near as good a location as the Greyhound.

Yes, it was mentioned that antic walked away from the greyhound because of the size, but that could be speculation, if anyone has any definitive proof or facts about the Greyhound, please let us know!