Woodman Public House: Planning Application change of use

[leenewham]

Lee

I'm afraid I completely disagree about the re-branding. The intended Wooster and Stock signage is in my opinion far, far too dominant, especially in a building in such a prominent position. I'm also unsure from the planning applications what colours will be used on the walls.

If the signage was moulded into the building as with the High Street buildings in Kirkdale as opposed to individual lettering fixed to it then I would agree 100%. But it isn't. What Wooster and Stock are planning, on paper at least, is similar in size material and style to what is there already!

Cobbs changed their name and yet the sky hasn't fallen in and that signage really is awful (no big arguments about that on here and yet it's possibly one of the most important buildings historically in Sydenham which gave it's name to the roundabout).

Can you honestly say that the signage here:


And the signage here:


are so different? They are both in the same materials, the same size. Or do you object to the current branding of the pub? Surely not?

Instead of following what is already there what do you propose? If I was designing the signage for Wooster & Stock I'd recommend exactly what they are doing, although I'd suggest creating a visual to see how their name will work if they reuse the orignal lettering from the 'woo' part of Woodman. I'd hope that they match the original type of the woodsman (a decent signmaker can do that).

Businesses change, names change. I'm all for preserving history and buildings telling a story, but we have to be realistic. Perhaps we can put a plaque up or a tiled panel (as they type you see in the City of London to denote historical sites) telling the rather lovely Story from Steve about the origins of the name (which I didn't know about).

My main objection is to the removal of the original windows. But buildings change. At least it will still look like a pub, feel like a pub and with the restoration of the tiles continue to be a handsome inhabitat to the street unlike the vast majority of shops in Sydenham.

I think it would be a shame if we objected to traditional materials being used in signage, it's sending out completely the wrong signals.

As I said, I'd prefer it to remain a pub. I loved the Sunday Lunch at the Woodman, I now go to Crystal Palace for Sunday lunch as I'm not a fan of any in Sydenham to date.

As for buildings not being demolished because they are historical, how about the Sydenham Children's hospital, or the Forest hill Pools, The Greyhound (part demolished), Louise House (only saved due to huge campaigns) or a host of other buildings such around London that are no longer with us. If it becomes uneconomical to repair or use a building then it's future looks bleak. I think the Woodman's future looks rosey, but unfortunately not as a pub.

[marymck]

Sorry Lee - but I don't see this is something we'll agree about. Though by the way I am not objecting to traditional materials!

The Woodman is in a highly prominent position. The signage - and colour branding, scale and proportions- needs to be judged in relation to this. If I could post an image on this forum (without setting up an online flickr type account to do so) then I would post images of how The Woodman used to look, prior to its current horrible colour.

We're not only talking about changes to the front elevation, but to the Halifax Street side also. Two wide entrances will be closed off (one on Kirkdale and one on Halifax Street), leaving one disproportionally small entrance. The hanging Woodman pub sign will be replaced by a Wooster and Stock board. The proposed windows do permanent damage to the building ... in my opinion. The lanterns may not be to everyone's taste ... but I think they've got a lovely Dickensian feel to them and I'm really sad that Wooster & Stock want to lose them also.

I believe that Wooster and Stock's proposals are unsympathetic to the history of the building and demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of The Woodman's position in the area's heart and character, both today and in the future. Wooster and Stock's use of our former sub-post office isn't exactly a shining example of good design and a useful community asset, in my opinion. And their huge "sold" sign has been attached to the Woodman for months and months, which is a bit strange considering they were the purchasers.

The proposed internal and external alterations, once made, cannot be reversed. There are lots of alternatives that could have been considered.

For example: a far sighted developer may have decided to convert the pub into an eatery with accommodation ... there being a desperate shortage of guest rooms in this area. Thankfully developers in Dulwich have proven themselves more imaginative than Sydenham's. I understand the Crown and Greyhound are hoping to convert to a 20 room pub/hotel. This would not only provide jobs at the hotel, but increase business locally as many people would love to stay in this area but can't find anywhere suitable. For example, some people who wanted to get married locally couldn't do so, due to lack of guest accommodation. Weddings bring money to lots of local businesses.

You can view more about the proposals on http://www.dulwichsociety.com/

When Wooster and Stock purchased The Woodman I was led to believe they were going to use the ground floor as a gallery space and retain their current premises (which by the way were subject to an unsympathetic quart into a pint pot development proposal a while back). I was also assured by a lady in the shop - I had called in at an early stage of the development to (naively) congratulate them on restoring the glazed bricks - that they intended to leave the windows unchanged.

Sadly, I fear I've been proved right about Wooster and Stock's so called "Kirkdale Village" initiative ... Wooster and Stock Village anyone?

[digime2007]

I think the plans look fine.

I'd prefer to see development than buildings left to rot. There's way too much of that already.

It's not an ideal world let alone an ideal Sydenham.

[ksyd]

In the Halifax Street side have they started to paint the tiles Wooster and Stock orange? Why do they need such a big space, i dont think i have ever seen their premises packed out with eager home hunters. Its a shame it will not be a place that a lot of the community will be able to use, same with the Kirkdale Adult Education Centre another place lost to meet local people, is the allotment area going to be kept?