WHAT SHOPS WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IN THE HIGH STREET

[Ruby]

I have just been writing about this on another post.

Where does one start?

Waitrose, marks and spencer, wh smith, maybe a starbucks, a state of the art hairdressers that offers brand new treatments and maybe a decent shoe shop, not the usual Sydenham down town attempts.

On top of that it would be great to have really good and smartly decorated smaller shops like a haberdashery, a quality kitchen shop, once again not the usual Sydenham attempt that would probably sell the cheapest ware but a place that sells kitchenaid, le crueset, dualit etc.

I would be more than satisfied with shops that are pleasing to the eye, clean and selling quality products.

Places like that would have longevity and I would be proud to walk down the high street and do all of my shopping there instead of travelling further afield.

Who knows people from ather areas might start to use our high street and I would love to see the smug smiles wiped off the good folk of Beckenham etc who use that smug facial expression whenever I talk about Sydenham.javascript:emoticon('')

[GLOBAL THINKER]

Maybe we could just cut and paste East Dulwich into Sydenham High Street and be done with it.

I am all for improving the high street, and I am as aspirational as anyone else. But the tone of some of the posts in this thread and others has nothing do with improving things and more to do with removing offending people / shops from sight.

It has nothing to do with class and everything to do with a vicious arrogance that seems to permeate society today. Look at the thread regarding Premier Snack bar for instance, just because it is at the end of Sydenham that people deem to be "lower" it must therefore be crap.

It's slightly unsettling. My opinion is if you want ED move there, if you want to improve Sydenham get involved.

There seems to be a wealth of people in Sydenham with skills and ideas, maybe they should be put to good use rather than thinking "I wish I could afford ED". You couldn't that's why you are here, live with it or move.

[Juwlz]

I'd like to see a butchers nearer the station that does organic meat and game and a fishmongers would be great. If they were open late so that people who work in town can get something after work that would be even better.

A shop that sells nice gifts and cards might be handy too.


I don't think people just want to cut and paste ED to Sydenham at all.

I moved from ED to Sydenham because over-all I prefer it.
However - I don't prefer the high street. There are some pretty good shops but not enough to be useful.

I like the quirky, independent shops there are in ED but I think the way the chain-stores are gradually encroaching is not very desirable. I nearly had a heart-attack when I saw the HIDEOUS giant Foxtons that's landed like a space-ship on Lordship lane. And cafe Nero is not my cup of tea frankly. I'd take Chef's Delight over that any day.

[multisync]

Maybe an opening for a travel agents.After all Dowling closed and also the travel agent in Sainsbury Bell Green.Ihave just had aletter from Travelcare in Penge,who have helped me out over many years[first name basis] are to close on 3rd December.Where to go.

[Nickerbockers]

Definitely no more places to eat or drink; put together the pubs/greasy spoons and cafes in the High Street and there's more than enough!

Whereas there's only a couple of clothes shops, and only one supermarket, another one nearer the Cobbs Corner end would be helpful, ppraps a Sainsbury's Local even.

[Ruby]

Global Thinker.

There is nothing wrong to wish that some of the shops would close down.

Maybe you like to spend money on total rubbish but the majority of people do not.

I for one do not want East Dulwich but would love to have a high street that is worth shopping in.

Just because are house prices are still behind those of East Dulwich etc does not mean that we should all want to put up with trampy surroundings.

[leenewham]

In defence of Global Thinker, He lives in the road I want to move to which is in Lower Sydenham and from what he says he seems to agree that the high street needs to improve, but he's annoyed at the snobbery between upper and lower Sydenham.

Sydenham is a great place full of great people with a not so great high street (at the very least in appearance). It has amazing housing and beautiful streets and parks which to me seem the biggest attraction to the place. I doubt if ANYONE would move here because of the high street. There is enough room in the high street for a bit of everything for everyone. Due to a lack of parking and the retail park at the bottom hill I can't see it ever being a chain filled carbon copy British High Street as most people walking along it seem local.

From what I have red so far, a village atmosphere is what most people seem to want with friendly shops selling interesting things you can't get in many other places. When people refer to East Dulwich I'd guess this is what they mean. Lets face it, East Dulwich does at least take pride in its appearance, at the very least I'd like the high street in Sydenham to have the same pride in how it looks.

[simon]

Without wishing to overstate the bleedin' obvious, we get the shops that the local ecconomy can support. That is why there are so many pound shops that are thriving because there are a lot of people who dont have much money in Sydenham. Catering and retail are hugely sensitive to local market conditions and you only have to look at the number of businesses that come and go because they cant make the place pay. ST board posters, I should guess, come from a slightly wealthier demographic that is average for Sydenham and I would think only represent a small minority of local residents. Enough to make the Dolphin and BMC a success, but not enough to support a high street full of the sort of businesse that are being asked for on this thread. Maybe that will change as Sydenham becomes gentrified but I would guess that it will take quite a long time.

[Paddy Pantsdown]

he's annoyed at the snobbery between upper and lower Sydenham.

Nope. Its MidSyd that's the problem

PP

[fishcox]

It's not that long ago that Lordship Lane was in a similar state to our own High Street - if not worse.

No doubt it will follow suit, and before you know it, we will have the same type of shops, the same coffee places, the same supermarkets (theirs is a posh Summerfield isnt it?) etc etc, until we end up with the homogeneous high street you can find in Putney, Clapham, Wandsworth, and all around north London.

Say what you like about Sydenham (and I have in the past) but at least our High Street has a bit of character about it.

Whilst there is both positive and negative aspects to an area becoming 'gentrified' (a term I dislike immensely) the thing I loathe the most is the people who subsequently become attracted, seeing that they can make a fast buck out it - and then act like they own the place. I shall call them the 'middle classes' for sake of a term. Anyone who gets excited at the thought of a cappuccino, or latte, or ever orders a 'skinny' something or another, makes me wonder where on earth we are heading to. Organic food is another belter; I take my hat off to whoever though of it - fleecing the people who deserve to be fleeced.

Read a book called Affluenza - written by the psychologist Oliver James. It's marvellous.

[nork1]

Maybe we could just cut and paste East Dulwich into Sydenham High Street and be done with it.

I am all for improving the high street, and I am as aspirational as anyone else. But the tone of some of the posts in this thread and others has nothing do with improving things and more to do with removing offending people / shops from sight.

It has nothing to do with class and everything to do with a vicious arrogance that seems to permeate society today. Look at the thread regarding Premier Snack bar for instance, just because it is at the end of Sydenham that people deem to be "lower" it must therefore be crap.

It's slightly unsettling. My opinion is if you want ED move there, if you want to improve Sydenham get involved.

There seems to be a wealth of people in Sydenham with skills and ideas, maybe they should be put to good use rather than thinking "I wish I could afford ED". You couldn't that's why you are here, live with it or move.

Totally agree.

[sydney]

I would definitely like to see a new deli. Think sydenham has lots of food options generally apart from a good sit down restaurant in the form of a metro in clapham common or Numidie in Crystal Palace. Some where that is relaxed but serves good food where you can spend the evening.

Have been following a through of the threads and feel encouraged by seeing so many enthusiatic people about the development of sydenham.

Am not bothered about debates of upper and lower street divides think most people would love the entire street to thrive. I am sure people woul welcome new entrants such as the BMC where ever they appear on the street. Think the important thing is that we attract business's like this who have obvously thought about what they are doing and are bringing something to the highstreet.

Another thread seems to be that if you want the highstreet to improve you are deemed a Snob. I think the sooner we can move passed this the better.

I have lived in south london around west norwood and crystal palace for many years but have now grown to love living in sydenham. However this does not mean that I should bury head in sand and not wish for safer place to live with good quality shops/restuarants.

[Juwlz]

Fishcox says

Whilst there is both positive and negative aspects to an area becoming 'gentrified' (a term I dislike immensely) the thing I loathe the most is the people who subsequently become attracted, seeing that they can make a fast buck out it - and then act like they own the place. I shall call them the 'middle classes' for sake of a term. Anyone who gets excited at the thought of a cappuccino, or latte, or ever orders a 'skinny' something or another, makes me wonder where on earth we are heading to. Organic food is another belter; I take my hat off to whoever though of it - fleecing the people who deserve to be fleeced.

Anyone who lives here does own the place to a certain extent, like it or not.
I don't particularly get exicted at the thought of capuccinos - I am the sort of person that orders a 'coffee' and I would rather eat my own handbag than order a 'skinny' anything but I take offence at the idea that organic food is another affectation rather than a quite reasonable attempt at producing food without ruining the environment. I for one buy it not necessarily just for my own good but for the benefit of the environment and wildlife and am prepared to pay extra for that.

[Juwlz]

I totally agree with mummycat about Mackrays old chemist - that would make a great sweet shop like the Hope and Greenwood shop in ED. I just worked out that I've spent close to £200 in that shop in the last 2 years (they're not all for myself, honest).
I normally buy chocolates for presents because everyone likes them, people are crazy about the Geranium ones (if you had them you'll know what I'm talking about).

[nork1]

Another thread seems to be that if you want the highstreet to improve you are deemed a Snob. I think the sooner we can move passed this the better.

Improve in what way? You want gastropubs/deli's/coffee shops/antique shops/galleries? That might be an improvement in your eyes, fair enough. What about the people who can't afford or are not willing to pay 'gentrified' prices? How's that going to help them? Ever wondered why there are so many pound shops etc., around here? The people who live here USE them. Like it or not we don't all live on organic 8 quid bloody fry ups. This is not Hampstead, it's South London.

[nork1]

Move anyone who doesn't like olives to Penge. Problem solved.

[leenewham]

This is not Hampstead, it's South London.

Why do you think that if the high street gets ONE gastropub and ONE posh cafe everything will go the same way.

I used to live in Hampstead and there are still small corner shops and great little greasy spoons, as well as fantastic 'old style' pubs full of locals. Not everyone who lives in Hampstead is rich, I certainly wasn't!

People seem to be wanting a variety and a village atmosphere. Do you think the high street look scruffy? Do you think it could look better, regardless of what the shops sell?

People on low incomes, which I have been in the past, like to treat themselves, still like to live in a nice area and don't buy everything in a pound shop.

[City_Slacker]

Nork1. So, some people can't afford an 8 quid breakfast. Boo hoo. I can't have Brad Pitt's looks and an e-type outside my front door. Life's not fair. Get over it. Just because I can't have these things, I don't resent other people who do.

Needless to say, I am all for gentrification, within limits. Instead of bleating about what you DON'T want on the High Street, how about a single contructive suggestion for what you WOULD like? Or would you really prefer the majority of the shops to be rubbish just so long as people with different tastes to you don't have places they can enjoy?

And where does it say anywhere that Sydenham should be "working class", whatever that means. For years it was a well off place full of people like the "middle classes" you sneer at. Want something more recent to chew on? Well, how about this. The 2001 Census - find it on the Lewisham website - shows that 55% of Sydenham residents were employed in managerial, professional or supervisory roles, i.e. what you might call "middle class". Does the mix of outlets on the High Street reflect this?

I'm not finished yet. That was 2001. Things have changed since then. Sydenham's population is about 15,500 with an average of 2.2 residents per household. In other words about 7000 households. Land Registry figures show about 550 SE26 properties were sold last year. That's about 8%. Not to say that the population is changing by 8% every year because some people will be moving within the postocde but you get the picture. Things change.

Correct me if I am wrong but I doubt whether any of the businesses that have gone from the High Street recently have done so because they were too upmarket. Probably the opposite. Personally I am less concerned about how a business looks than whether the owner has any knowledge, pride and enthusiasm about what they offer. Anyone can pile up a load of overpriced old tat and call it a business no doubt someone will buy some of it. But I'm not stupid and I won't. If I want a decent bottle of wine, for example, I won't find it somewhere they sell super strenth lager so I have to drive miles to get it or have it delivered. If there were a proper off licence on the High Street, I would go there. Simple.

Hopefully the success of the Dolphin and Blue Mountain will convince existing and future business owners that there are sufficient numbers of locals who will pay more for a decent product. I certainly believe there are.

[poppy]

I knew Lordship Lane too about eight years ago and Sydenham is definately very similar to ED back then, far more so than Brockley. And even the guy from Living Streets who gave a talk at the regeneration meeting last year said Sydenham had far more to offer in terms of green space and range of architecture compared to ED. I certainly would not say that there are more poor people living in Sydenham than middle class either. It's just the middle classes until recently have not bothered to shop here so have not been visible. Most of the streets off the high street and most of upper sydenham are full of middle class/professional people. I am a journalist and within the four or five doors either side of my house we have at least two classical musicians, two designers, a music teacher and someone who works in the art world. I have heard an opera singer further down the road and some book publishers live here too. So there is definately enough people to frequent 'quality' shops. And if we had some more lifestyle shops, eg Soup Dragon and good boutiques, I think you would even get people coming up from Beckenham (who wouldn't venture as far afield as ED), Forest Hill and certainly from Penge which also has its middle class enclaves.

[leenewham]

Totally agree poppy, the high street has a huge amount to offer. For everyone.