But Parker "the forecourt of that office/depot thing with the Lewisham Council sign outside on Willow Way adjacent to the corner frontage of Tesco" where you think Tesco customers will park is one of the options Lewisham is putting forward as a possible site for the replacement Forest Hill pools.
If the Willow Way site is chosen parking around Willow Way, Kirkdale and Sydenham Park is going to become very interesting.
New Tesco in Kirkdale?
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danstevens
- Posts: 116
- Joined: 6 Oct 2004 09:46
- Location: Sydenham
Theoretically agree Dan, but people already stop in their cars to visit Rams so one would only imagine this would increase if anything once Tesco opens. I don't know if there has been any change since, but the application from Tesco wanted to take one of the existing parking bays along Kirkdale and turn it into a loading bay, so this won't help. I agree with Pat, parking will become scarce indeed....
You'd be surprised.....check out the Tesco Expresses in Downham, Penge and in Forest Hill just down from the Horniman....danstevens wrote:Why do people need to park? I should imagine the catchment area for a Tesco express is about 1 mile with the majority of customers living in the local area. I can understand people driving to a big supermarket to do a weekly shop but not a Tesco express.
I agree 100 % that the catchment area for tesco express will be very small. Probably half a mile at the very most.
In theory people should not use their cars and should be penalised ( large parking charges for doing so ), but Barty is correct , people will use their cars to drive 100 metres.
Tesco Forest Hill has on site free parking so they will get the lazy drivers. Pedestrians will use Kirkdale.
In theory people should not use their cars and should be penalised ( large parking charges for doing so ), but Barty is correct , people will use their cars to drive 100 metres.
Tesco Forest Hill has on site free parking so they will get the lazy drivers. Pedestrians will use Kirkdale.
We go to those three Tesco expresses I mentioned quite often when we are on our way back home by car from going out somewhere, and we have remembered that we need a pint of milk / loaf of bread / something to put in a sarnie for tomorrow's lunch etc etc etc and decide to pick it up on the way in. Saves trudging round Savacentre / Somerfield for one or two little bits.
So under these circumstances we are well outside the few-hundred-metres catchment area of the stores concerned.
So under these circumstances we are well outside the few-hundred-metres catchment area of the stores concerned.
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robertlondon
- Posts: 16
- Joined: 3 Jun 2008 21:32
- Location: Sydenham
Don't ask me why but I bought large tins of Farrows marrowfat peas last week
Costcutter (across the road) 59p
Tesco (Elmers End) 65p
I had thought large supermarkets would have cheaper prices because of their large buying power etc - was a bit surprised that the Costcutter was cheaper.
Was that just a fluke or are the prices in Costcutter/Rams comparable with Tesco?
Costcutter (across the road) 59p
Tesco (Elmers End) 65p
I had thought large supermarkets would have cheaper prices because of their large buying power etc - was a bit surprised that the Costcutter was cheaper.
Was that just a fluke or are the prices in Costcutter/Rams comparable with Tesco?
Do not assume the likes of Tesco always competitive. Article in the paper today that they are losing support at the cheaper end of the market.
Tesco Metro when they open will probably start cheap to kill of Costcutters , then you wait.
Why oh why are people so excited about the arrival of a mini of a giant that controls 30% of UK food sales. How depressing things have become in the UK if this is a cause for excitement.
Re parking I hope yellow lines are put and enforced outside and near this unwanted intruder.
Watch cloning of your cards. The FH branch has had a number of cases. Suggest cash only if you have to shop there.
Tesco Metro when they open will probably start cheap to kill of Costcutters , then you wait.
Why oh why are people so excited about the arrival of a mini of a giant that controls 30% of UK food sales. How depressing things have become in the UK if this is a cause for excitement.
Re parking I hope yellow lines are put and enforced outside and near this unwanted intruder.
Watch cloning of your cards. The FH branch has had a number of cases. Suggest cash only if you have to shop there.
Tesco Express is more expensive than normal Tesco.
Tesco have 4 tiers of products.
Value
Discounter (fake brands which are actually own brand)
Standard brands
Finest
On top of that you have mainstream brands and tertiary brands.
Confused?
Places like Costcutter have brands like best-in and Farrow which are like tertiary brands and value brands in supermarkets.
Overall places like Costcutter are more expensive than any supermarket if you compare like for like products but surprisingly you can find some products cheaper in Waitrose than Lidl or Asda.
There are lots of grey areas.
But if something is cheap you have to ask the question 'why is it so cheap' because supermarkets will still make their 2-5% profit on those cheap peas.
Tesco have 4 tiers of products.
Value
Discounter (fake brands which are actually own brand)
Standard brands
Finest
On top of that you have mainstream brands and tertiary brands.
Confused?
Places like Costcutter have brands like best-in and Farrow which are like tertiary brands and value brands in supermarkets.
Overall places like Costcutter are more expensive than any supermarket if you compare like for like products but surprisingly you can find some products cheaper in Waitrose than Lidl or Asda.
There are lots of grey areas.
But if something is cheap you have to ask the question 'why is it so cheap' because supermarkets will still make their 2-5% profit on those cheap peas.
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MikeinDenham
- Posts: 7
- Joined: 22 Apr 2009 11:48
- Location: Sydenham
Kirkdale developments/Tesco
Hello all,
New to the forum so nice to meet you.
Just to say that as much as I don't like big corporations like Tesco I do think this is a positive sign for Kirkdale, Sydenham and the surrounding area. Hopefully it will encourage better quality retail outlets around this specific area. Costcutter have - in my opinion - gone some way to improve their service which can only be a good thing. I think that this end of Kirkdale does have bags more potential and hopefully it will progress and grow over the coming months.
Any ideas why some of the units are still empty? I had also heard some months back that there was a pot of money available to improve Sydenham High St and attract outlets such as Pizza Express and Cafe Nero?
The Dartmouth Rd/Kirkdale area is the ideal location for new businesses and coffee shops and book shops - surely there must be some uptake from somewhere?
Also, does anyone know about that pine furniture shop which appears to have being lying empty for months? And the rumours about the re-sell of the Windmill?
Mike (Denham Crt).
New to the forum so nice to meet you.
Just to say that as much as I don't like big corporations like Tesco I do think this is a positive sign for Kirkdale, Sydenham and the surrounding area. Hopefully it will encourage better quality retail outlets around this specific area. Costcutter have - in my opinion - gone some way to improve their service which can only be a good thing. I think that this end of Kirkdale does have bags more potential and hopefully it will progress and grow over the coming months.
Any ideas why some of the units are still empty? I had also heard some months back that there was a pot of money available to improve Sydenham High St and attract outlets such as Pizza Express and Cafe Nero?
The Dartmouth Rd/Kirkdale area is the ideal location for new businesses and coffee shops and book shops - surely there must be some uptake from somewhere?
Also, does anyone know about that pine furniture shop which appears to have being lying empty for months? And the rumours about the re-sell of the Windmill?
Mike (Denham Crt).
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Robin Orton
- Posts: 3380
- Joined: 9 Sep 2008 07:30
- Location: London SE26
Re: Kirkdale developments/Tesco
I guess you mean 'The Oak and Pine Shop'? In my quick survey of the shops in upper Kirkdale reported on the 'empty properties blight' thread - see http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic. ... 592a#25757 - I assumed it was still trading. Was I wrong?MikeinDenham wrote: Also, does anyone know about that pine furniture shop which appears to have being lying empty for months?
Robin - I'm puzzled.
On the thread on empty properties you bemoan the fact that there are so many empty retail properties in Kirkdale. But you were one of the leading lights fighting the arrival of modern retailing in this neighbourhood just a few months ago.
With one pub in Kirkdale closed and another just about to close, the only way to revive retailing in Kirkdale is to welcome new modern, well-organised shops and businesses such as Tesco.
Clearly your approach - which is to fight any new "efficient" shops coming into the area - is an absurdity in a neighbourhood with one third empty units.
Since you have "discovered" just how bad the situation is in this locality, will you now admit that you were wrong in trying to stop retail progress in this neighbourhood?
Barry Milton
On the thread on empty properties you bemoan the fact that there are so many empty retail properties in Kirkdale. But you were one of the leading lights fighting the arrival of modern retailing in this neighbourhood just a few months ago.
With one pub in Kirkdale closed and another just about to close, the only way to revive retailing in Kirkdale is to welcome new modern, well-organised shops and businesses such as Tesco.
Clearly your approach - which is to fight any new "efficient" shops coming into the area - is an absurdity in a neighbourhood with one third empty units.
Since you have "discovered" just how bad the situation is in this locality, will you now admit that you were wrong in trying to stop retail progress in this neighbourhood?
Barry Milton
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Robin Orton
- Posts: 3380
- Joined: 9 Sep 2008 07:30
- Location: London SE26
Barry, I haven't been a 'leading light' in any 'fight' - flattering though it would be thought one! My contributions to this thread have been largely to raise the issue in the first place, to ask a question, and to post bits of information I've received from Ram.
But I admit to mixed feelings. As I said on 10 September 'I agree with other people who have posted here that the retail environment a bit further up Kirkdale would benefit from some new blood.' But 'Ram's shop is a real community focus, and I would hate to see it go under.' Maybe these two aspirations will turn out to be incompatible - but I hope not.
I suspect that, given changed shopping patterns, there can be no sustainable long term future for streets like Kirkdale as traditional retail areas. And there must be a limit on the number of convenience stores, cafes, fast food outlets and betting shops which it can support. I suppose another theoretical possibility is to encourage (how?) upmarket specialist shops aimed at a wider South London clientele - as MikeinDenham seems to be suggesting. But upper Kirkdale is, I would have thought, too far from both Sydenham and Forest Hill stations, and too short of parking spaces, to make this very attractive to business people. Is there really any realistic option other than 'managed decline'?
Is the Windmill the pub which is 'about to close'? MikeinDenham says there are rumours that it is to be sold - same thing?
But I admit to mixed feelings. As I said on 10 September 'I agree with other people who have posted here that the retail environment a bit further up Kirkdale would benefit from some new blood.' But 'Ram's shop is a real community focus, and I would hate to see it go under.' Maybe these two aspirations will turn out to be incompatible - but I hope not.
I suspect that, given changed shopping patterns, there can be no sustainable long term future for streets like Kirkdale as traditional retail areas. And there must be a limit on the number of convenience stores, cafes, fast food outlets and betting shops which it can support. I suppose another theoretical possibility is to encourage (how?) upmarket specialist shops aimed at a wider South London clientele - as MikeinDenham seems to be suggesting. But upper Kirkdale is, I would have thought, too far from both Sydenham and Forest Hill stations, and too short of parking spaces, to make this very attractive to business people. Is there really any realistic option other than 'managed decline'?
Is the Windmill the pub which is 'about to close'? MikeinDenham says there are rumours that it is to be sold - same thing?
Regarding parking at Tesco, Tesco opened a stor near where I used to work in Marylebone. There was parking and never any cars outside the shop.
It was a similar story in New Cross near where I lived. A new Tesco and only ever one or two cars parked outside in the parking bay.
Even in MFC3, despite a fairly substantial car park there are only one or two cars in there.
All the Tesco Metros I used to frequent (before I refused to shop at Tesco any more having worked for them) had mostly local people shopping there.
Perhaps these were all isolated cases?
Tesco Metro is for a top up/impulse shopping trip, not a weekly shop.
It was a similar story in New Cross near where I lived. A new Tesco and only ever one or two cars parked outside in the parking bay.
Even in MFC3, despite a fairly substantial car park there are only one or two cars in there.
All the Tesco Metros I used to frequent (before I refused to shop at Tesco any more having worked for them) had mostly local people shopping there.
Perhaps these were all isolated cases?
Tesco Metro is for a top up/impulse shopping trip, not a weekly shop.
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MikeinDenham
- Posts: 7
- Joined: 22 Apr 2009 11:48
- Location: Sydenham
All - thanks for responding.
Maybe I am being a bit too optimistic here, but I do still think that part of Kirkdale has potential. I personally don't think it's too far from Sydenham or Forest Hill stations (look how far East Dulwich Station is from Lordship Lne for example).
The pine shop never appears to be open and in the 2 and a half years I have lived here, I've never once seen an item being shifted. Maybe it's a shop front for something else?
Does anyone know which exact pub was to close? If we had one decent pub, one decent cafe and Tesco express on that part of Kirkdale it would be a very good start! Surely some savvy pub owner will see the potential for something a bit more upmarket without being over the top? Who can we appeal/campaign too?
What about the proposed developments for Sydenham High St and Dartmouth Rd? Are we not meant to be getting more outlets there?
Maybe I am being a bit too optimistic here, but I do still think that part of Kirkdale has potential. I personally don't think it's too far from Sydenham or Forest Hill stations (look how far East Dulwich Station is from Lordship Lne for example).
The pine shop never appears to be open and in the 2 and a half years I have lived here, I've never once seen an item being shifted. Maybe it's a shop front for something else?
Does anyone know which exact pub was to close? If we had one decent pub, one decent cafe and Tesco express on that part of Kirkdale it would be a very good start! Surely some savvy pub owner will see the potential for something a bit more upmarket without being over the top? Who can we appeal/campaign too?
What about the proposed developments for Sydenham High St and Dartmouth Rd? Are we not meant to be getting more outlets there?
People are excited because a Tesco = economic progress, something Sydenham/Kirkdale (Lewisham!) hungers for, *coughs* 'every little helps!' I agree with 'MikeInDenham' that Tesco will complement and attract new retail entrants. The existence of companies like Tesco usually mean that customers can expect a certain standard of quality and service which independent, unorganised retailers cannot financially provide, ie. economies of scale leading to specific food ranges and the odd generic Tesco multibuys on different products that as a company are the same in all 'Express' stores. I do hope they choose appropriate exterior signage, it would be nice to have the black 'bespoke' Tesco signage of the Express store at The Strand in Central London.Eagle wrote:Why oh why are people so excited about the arrival of a mini of a giant that controls 30% of UK food sales. How depressing things have become in the UK if this is a cause for excitement.
I do wish the Windmill stayed as a JD Wetherspoons, why did they sell it so quick after taking over the site all those years ago? Cant they come back rather than someone new driving it into the ground or get someone that can turn it into an established venue similar to East Dulwich's 'The Plough' or the 'East Dulwich Tavern' or Sydenham's 'The Dolphin'.
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MikeinDenham
- Posts: 7
- Joined: 22 Apr 2009 11:48
- Location: Sydenham
Parker - here here. I like your logic.
The Tesco will add to the area and hopefully keep the local businesses in check. They will simply have to step up to the mark if they want to survive (in the way that Costcutter has improved itself recently).
Does anyone know if the Windmill is selling for definate? If so, I do think there lies an ideal opportunity for take over for something altogether better. The owners of the Dartmouth/Dolphin would be perfect. I have just emailed them to ask them about their plans for expansion in the area in line with its regeneration and highlighted this part of Kirkdale as a potential.
I have no idea what is motivating me to do this! Maybe we should start a local campaign for better retail in the area? Would have no idea where to start and I'm sure the Sydenham Society is already doing this.
On another note the cafe beside the Windmill - anyone know how long it has been there for?
The Tesco will add to the area and hopefully keep the local businesses in check. They will simply have to step up to the mark if they want to survive (in the way that Costcutter has improved itself recently).
Does anyone know if the Windmill is selling for definate? If so, I do think there lies an ideal opportunity for take over for something altogether better. The owners of the Dartmouth/Dolphin would be perfect. I have just emailed them to ask them about their plans for expansion in the area in line with its regeneration and highlighted this part of Kirkdale as a potential.
I have no idea what is motivating me to do this! Maybe we should start a local campaign for better retail in the area? Would have no idea where to start and I'm sure the Sydenham Society is already doing this.
On another note the cafe beside the Windmill - anyone know how long it has been there for?
Cafe Jasmine?MikeinDenham wrote: On another note the cafe beside the Windmill - anyone know how long it has been there for?
I don't know; but this was the first place we went to after viewing my flat and the experience confirmed my intention of moving to Syd with the handy Kirkdale parade of shops on my doorstep.
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MikeinDenham
- Posts: 7
- Joined: 22 Apr 2009 11:48
- Location: Sydenham