Eagle please... The pub makes a loss, it looks like a failing 90's BHS restaurant. Sorry but I feel Sydenham is actually better than what the Windmill gives to Upper Sydenham...
Anyone concerned with regenerating 'Kirkdale Village' would rather see the place a Sainsbury's than the Windmill. How can you call an area 'up and coming' when there's an eyesore that the Wetherspoons ditched; after building a decade ago...?
If the choice was 'The Windmill' or JS local, then yes, most people would say JS local, however that isn't the case and shouldn't be the case - there should be more options than just leaving The Windmill as is, or letting it become another Sainsbury Local.
There should be the option of The Windmill becoming a nicer pub, or another pub, or something else entirely - maybe a local independent commercial space of some sort.
If you ask people what they want, but only give them two options, you'll only get an answer of one or other of those options and if you make the question heavily biased then obviously you'll get the answers you want
e.g. 1 - do you want to keep the shitty old, pub, which loses money, filled with scum (only when it's not empty), etc, etc, lots of descriptions that make the place sound terrible OR do you want a brand new Sainsbury Local, bringing life to the community, job to the locals, etc, etc, lots of positive description of JS local to make it sound like any idylic place to shop.
e.g. 2 - Do you want to keep the Windmill, a community asset, a place where people meet, where parties are held, a place that could be so much better with a little investment in the right areas, a great pub manager, etc, etc, lots of positive descriptions of the current windmill and what it could become OR do you want the landlord to rent the property to a multi national conglomerate, for excessive rent, to bring in a 'local' supermarket, which will compete against all the other local grocery stores, but with an unfair advantage of it being a global chain, bringing cheap alcohol, long oppening hours, large delivery lorries, noisy extractor fans, etc, etc, lots of derogatory facts about how bad JS are.
EG1 - people will respond and say that they want Sainsbury local
EG2 - people will respond to say keep the Windmill
I say keep The Windmill, get the landlord to make the right investments, make it into the wonderful pub that it could so easily become - but then we can't force landowners to do that kind of thing in the capitalist society that we live in so we'll probably end up without a pub, and with another uneeded supermarket.
[edit to add] - who actually knows if the pub is making a profit or a loss? - the landlord, the manager, and an accountant somewhere, and maybe a few others. According to the owner/landlord/property developement company - it's making a loss, according to Mary, who says she asked the pub manager - it's making a profit. So who do we believe?
without evidence, accounts, etc, it's impossible to know as both sides will have reasons for presenting the place as either being profitable or not.
A pub as 'shitty' as the Windmill would be in a fantasy land or changed premises to somewhere like Clapham if it had a successful financial brief or Antic would've thrown a load of old looking (non Ikea) furniture in and made a go of it but it's location isn't right for its size. It's a mess at the moment.
hairybuddha wrote:
You might be onto something there Eagle. Is "price out the plebs" what people really mean when they talk about conservation and regeneration?
It's called gentrification HB and it works like this.
Take an area of London and pretend it's the best place on the face of the globe by introducing words like "Village" "Vibrancy" "Trendy" over price everything to attract yuppies and before you know it you're surrounded by deluded f_ckwits wearing lumberjack shirts, Jeggins and flip flops.
I like being called an urban professional....ageing yes and wearing a lumberjack shirt as the pattern hides my podge...gained through eating all that foie gras!
Apparently Ram's is going to be closing down in the new year when Sainsbury's opens. Apparently it's been very difficult to trade since Tesco have been in Kirkdale so he's leaving the area...
Has the fight to save the pub been lost completely.
It should cheer up those who would like every shop to be a supermarket.
No Eagle, the fight to save the Windmill - and by extension our community assets - has definitely not been lost. Lewisham Planning are still accepting objections. My understanding is that Rams will close IF Sainsburys open. I was told this at an early stage, in confidence. But it's not exactly rocket science to see that local independent businesses - the bedrock of our community - cannot withstand the double whammy of Tesco and Sainsburys. I wouldn't have named names, but now that Parker has published, no doubt Rams must have said to go public.
I believe other local businesses also see their futures under threat if Sainsburys opens. Many of them have objected to Sainsburys plans.
But surely this is what Parker and the rest of the pro mega business lobby want? Tesco and Sainsburys over small community centric businesses? It was obvious to all that businesses like Ram's would be forced to close.
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Last edited by marymck on 19 Nov 2013 18:08, edited 2 times in total.
Eagle wrote:Thanks Mary and I , like I am sure all others , wish you all the best in your attempts to stop this community asset being lost
Thanks Eagle, but I don't think so! I think the pro Sainsburys lobby has set out its stall pretty clearly on this site already. Sadly, Ram's shop and others like it just collateral damage in the march of Sainsburys.
I have just been in to RAM's and they categorically deny that they will be closing. Please do not post / start unfounded rumours that could potential damage businesses.
Thank you
What's the postcode for RAM's so I can find it on the map. I'm not familiar with Kirkdale shops, or is it Dartmouth Road? Also what do they sell? I might wander up there to buy and show support. Can't avoid the march of chain metros but always good to know what alternatives there are. Best to give as much publicity as possible to alternatives to help rival the "comfortably familiar" aspect of chains.
richpickings wrote:I have just been in to RAM's and they categorically deny that they will be closing. Please do not post / start unfounded rumours that could potential damage businesses.
Thank you
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Richpickings, that is most certainly not what he said to me, bringing it up in conversation like it sounds you did isn't probably going to be the best way to unearth what his plans are. I bet he didn't tell you he has other news agents' else where too did he...?
