Another stabbing in Sydenham

[Annie.]

All I was suggesting was , maybe the criminal should want to change, is that so wrong!.

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[Eagle]

Annie
Of course you are correct.

[michael]

Its up to the criminal to want to change,then and only then will society be able to help.

All I was suggesting was , maybe the criminal should want to change, is that so wrong!.

What you were suggesting is that society should not intervene to attempt to change attitudes or behaviour of criminals. What you are suggesting is that rehabilitation of criminals and prisoners is useless except when they have already changed.
Low effort and low chance of success.

[Eagle]

Just seen on BBC site a Scotsman just released from prison after 6 years. Foe what you might as.
Murder , Treason , ( more than one serves for both of those )

No he refused to wear clothes . Whilst I do not agree walking round naked a great idea is not 6 years a bit steep compared with more serious crimes.

[Annie.]

Should we continually throw good money after bad at these people,when half the time they are actually being encouraged by the constant handouts from society?
All the time anti social behaviour is not addressed from an early age,we will have these problems,
In a school i worked in,a child had a mentor, this mentor used to sit at the table while the pupil he was mentoring went walk abouts ( in and out of classrooms disrupting other pupils) the mentor was busy using his mobile,now this child knew exactly how to ( mis) use the system, he was about 9-10,he was an intelligent lad,with a twinkle in his eye as he gave he adults the runaround,now he is in secondary school,I just hope that his early years at school have not been wasted by do gooders not wanting to show him dicipline,they may have ruied his life, I hope not. Will we see him eventually doing " time" who knows.

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[Eagle]

Annie
Why was the mentor sacked at once.

True in my day NO mentors and teachers coped with up to 40 in junior schools.

What has happened to our society. Some learn to abuse from an early age.

[Annie.]

Its up to the criminal to want to change,then and only then will society be able to help.

All I was suggesting was , maybe the criminal should want to change, is that so wrong!.

What you were suggesting is that society should not intervene to attempt to change attitudes or behaviour of criminals. What you are suggesting is that rehabilitation of criminals and prisoners is useless except when they have already changed.
Low effort and low chance of success.

I don't recall suggesting that at all Michael,please don't try to put your words into my mouth,I suggested that people need to want to change before society should waste time and effort in helping,there is a difference.if someone shows no signs of wanting to better themselves then they should be prepared to suffer the consequences.
The person we are talking about had already been given that chance,now throw away the key.

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[michael]

Exactly Annie. We all know that good quality early years intervention can make a big difference and that a comprehensive solution to all the problems is better than trying to react to specific issues as they arise.

But don't give up on adults. Education and rehabilitation in prisons can have very good results when the quality of these good enough. It is also surprisingly cheap compared to the cost of just locking them up again after a few years on the outside to cause problems.

Discipline is not the only answer, although it is clearly part of the answer.

And Eagle, good try, but I'm not Googling 'Naked Scotsman'.

[Annie.]

Isnt it a fact that rehabilitation doesnt actually work though?
Don't x amount go on to commit other crimes once they are released?

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[Eagle]

Michael
Try googling BBC Scotland


It is only more expensive locking them up because they are not put to work. Also would not provide with expensive gyms so they come out even more aggressive.

[Annie.]

I googled it Eagle, Brave soul, out in all weathers! But as to whether I want to see a naked man walking around willy nilly ( so to speak!) im not so sure.
I do think the human body shouldnt be seen as obscene, but at the same time I don't necessacary think all human bodies are beautiful! If you know what I mean ;0)) Put it this way,you are in no danger of seeing mine down the high street!;0))

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[michael]

Isnt it a fact that rehabilitation doesnt actually work though?
Don't x amount go on to commit other crimes once they are released?

Well then they ain't rehabilitated are they?
Most people who go to prison go on to commit other crimes (I think 'most' is correct unfortunately), but that just shows that prisons are not rehabilitating people. I am arguing that they should try harder.

[Eagle]

You certainly have no danger of seeing me walk the high street naked. Do not even wear short sleeve shirts.

It certainly would not be a good thing.. The thought of walking down the high street with everyone naked is a frightening thought , but does it deserve SIX years in prison. Or am I being , as usual , far to liberal.

[Annie.]

Isnt it a fact that rehabilitation doesnt actually work though?
Don't x amount go on to commit other crimes once they are released?

Well then they ain't rehabilitated are they?
Most people who go to prison go on to commit other crimes (I think 'most' is correct unfortunately), but that just shows that prisons are not rehabilitating people. I am arguing that they should try harder.

That the criminal should try harder? That I agree with ;0))

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[Annie.]

Haha, no, I think 6 years is far too much,they should let this poor man live his life, just make sure he sticks to wandering the Cairngorms not the high streets!

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[Tim Lund]

Exactly Annie. We all know that good quality early years intervention can make a big difference and that a comprehensive solution to all the problems is better than trying to react to specific issues as they arise.

But don't give up on adults. Education and rehabilitation in prisons can have very good results when the quality of these good enough. It is also surprisingly cheap compared to the cost of just locking them up again after a few years on the outside to cause problems.

Discipline is not the only answer, although it is clearly part of the answer.

Michael - please don't think you're a lone liberal voice crying in the wilderness on this one. I'm with you, even though today has been just overwhelmingly exciting getting Bromley Allotment web sites to do cool things. Can't show you, I'm afraid, because it all requires special log ins ...