Antic pubs have withdrawn from the Greyhound

[biscuitman1978]

I moved to Syd 18 months ago and am a regular consumer of the local restaurants. It's a shame that the Dolphin is the only real option for pubs in the area and I was really looking forward to this. It certainly would boost the area.

But let's be proactive - perhaps we can work out who is investing in pub properties and target the. Even a cafe rouge would be a boost.

Hope you're enjoying Sydenham, Morgers1.

As I said in a previous post, I've emailed a number of pub operators, both the larger ones and independents operating in south London, to make them aware of the opportunity at the Greyhound. Anyone who wants to know who I've emailed is welcome to PM me; if I've missed anyone I'll be happy to receive suggestions!

[Chris Best]

Great that the word is getting round that The Greyhound is available for letting. I have copied a para from the Planning Committee report to remind everyone that the building is locally listed:
The site lies within the Cobb's Corner Conservation Area, which was designated in
September 2007 and the Greyhound is locally listed as being of architectural or
historic interest. The Greyhound Public House was considered for statutory listing
by English Heritage in September 2007 and it was recommended that the building
not be added to the statutory list. The English Heritage report gives a
comprehensive description of the building's history, appearance and its significance
and this is included as an appendix to the Historic Buildings Report submitted by
the applicant.

Here is the link to the Historic Buildings report http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/ACOLLATEDOCS/50824_4.pdf

The following was agreed:

Restoration and refurbishment of the Greyhound Public House, including the
reinstatement of a former drinking corridor tiles within the building in a scheme
to be agreed and the design and implementation of a new ceramic rear
elevation to the building.

Reinstatement of the stone greyhounds on plinths to the front of the retained
Greyhound Public House.

Construction of new public realm adjacent to the Greyhound Public House,
including hard and soft landscaping.

Maintenance of the public realm and measures to ensure public access at all
times.

I think the building will look fantastic once the refurbishment is complete and hope that the marketing attracts a landlord who can see the potential.

Cllr Chris Best
http://www.chrisbest.org

[simon]

But none of the above answers the questions being asked here:
Will the upstairs be turned into flats?
Will it remain a pub?

Great that the word is getting round that The Greyhound is available for letting

:

What? As opposed to "Great that the word is out that Antic have withdrawn and Sydeham can have a new "coffee shop, restaurant/cafe, convienence store or similar." (In the words of the company currently marketing it.)

Yes, great, just great.

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/54220 ... a_success/

[multisync]

And Antic's still have the cheek to have there website advertised on the front hordings

[ALIB]

It was always going to be a 'small' pub. However, the public displays, (artwork and model), do seem to show the pub with a bit more space around it.






Unless anyone wants to take measurements from the model and pictures to see if they were actually representative of the space around the pub that now exists.

Plus the developer also put up cherry-pickers for a while to give an impresssion of the height the surrounding flats would be at

[JeeBee]

I'm sure the actual buildings in many parts are an extra storey over what is depicted in those mockups.

[Dorian]

I'm sure the actual buildings in many parts are an extra storey over what is depicted in those mockups.

It would be most unlikely that a developer would arbitrarily add a floor without planning consent and if they did they would be obliged to remove it.

Will the upstairs be turned into flats?

The planning mentions the first floor being part of the "pub" but the upper parts have always been residential so I presume if they made them in to flats it is only keeping what was there before. Having a planning permission doesnt mean you have to implement it.

. I have copied a para from the Planning Committee report to remind everyone that the building is locally listed:

What does this mean in real terms ? Does it protect the use as a pub or just the building ?

, including the
reinstatement of a former drinking corridor tiles within the building in a scheme

Is it known where this is going and when ?

[biscuitman1978]

I'm sure the actual buildings in many parts are an extra storey over what is depicted in those mockups.

Which parts are you referring to? I can't see any difference between the images AliB has posted and what's under construction.

Will the upstairs be turned into flats?

The planning mentions the first floor being part of the "pub" but the upper parts have always been residential so I presume if they made them in to flats it is only keeping what was there before. Having a planning permission doesnt mean you have to implement it.

There's no suggestion in the documents submitted in support of the application that any of the first floor space in the old pub was self-contained residential units - see pages 5 and 7 of the document at http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/ACOLLATEDOCS/50819_2.pdf for more info. Any use of the upper floor for residential would, therefore, need permission.

. I have copied a para from the Planning Committee report to remind everyone that the building is locally listed:

What does this mean in real terms ? Does it protect the use as a pub or just the building ?

Information on local listing is at http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/p ... dings.aspx. You can see that it simply commits the Council to using its powers to protect the 'character and setting' of buildings. You can judge for yourself whether the Council has done so; certainly it has ensured that the building remains, but as it stands it can be used for any A1, A2, A3 or A4 use.

, including the
reinstatement of a former drinking corridor tiles within the building in a scheme

Is it known where this is going and when ?

Condition 22 of the permission for the development says:

Details of a scheme for the reuse of the salvaged tiles from the former
'drinking corridor', including location and exact design, to be used in a
location within the refurbished public house shall be submitted to and
approved in writing by the local planning authority and the rear tiled wall shall
be constructed in accordance with the approved details before any of the
residential units hereby approved are occupied, unless the local planning
authority has given written consent for any variation.

I can't see any evidence on the planning application database on Lewisham Council's website that this condition has been discharged (complied with) to date. In other words, we don't yet know where they will go, nor when!

It was suggested in the Design & Access Statement submitted in support of the application that they might be located towards the front of the pub - see http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/ACOLLATEDOCS/50824_3.pdf (page 17).

[biscuitman1978]

Cllr Best and I have been informed today by the Development Control South Area Manager in the planning service at London Borough of Lewisham that:

We have received an enquiry as to the acceptability of a change of use of the upper floors of the pub to residential, but have not received a formal application for this so far.

A change of use of the upper floors would reduce the flexibility of any future use of the pub and as such would in all likeliness not be supported by the Council at this stage. This has been conveyed to Purelake.

[parklife]

Good !

[simon]

Thanks for that Mr Biscuit.
It's good news as the upstairs will make a lot of difference to its viability as a pub. Could put a dining room and kitchen up there.

[G-Man]

Thanks for that Mr Biscuit.
It's good news as the upstairs will make a lot of difference to its viability as a pub. Could put a dining room and kitchen up there.

Agreed it really does. Nice one for investigating. It would be good to get some clarity from Purelake so that Acorn can start marketing the property properly, as a viable pub!

G-Man

[biscuitman1978]

It would be good to get some clarity from Purelake so that Acorn can start marketing the property properly, as a viable pub!

I've made Acorn, the agents, aware that their marketing material (which says at http://www.acorncommercial.co.uk/proper ... denham-179 that 'above will be residential flats') is wrong.

Purelake made pretty clear that they didn't want to speak to me last time I phoned them, but someone else might want to try to speak to them!

[G-Man]

I'll get onto them in the latter half of this week. Been pretty busy.

Biscuitman1978 - can you let us know a list of pub operators you're contacted?

Cheers

G-Man

[biscuitman1978]

I'll get onto them in the latter half of this week. Been pretty busy.

Biscuitman1978 - can you let us know a list of pub operators you're contacted?

Cheers

G-Man

Any word from Purelake, G-Man?

Apologies for the delay in responding on the pub operators I've contacted. I've emailed the following (responses, where received, in square brackets):
- Youngs
- JD Wetherspoon [acquisitions team to undertake preliminary enquiries]
- Geronimo
- Capital Pub Company
- Fullers [only looking to acquire freehold properties other than in exceptional circumstances]
- Marston's
- Greene King [email forwarded to property team]
- Stonegate (Classic Inns)
- Faucet Inn
- Lively Hood [email forwarded to Commercial Director]
- Hall & Woodhouse
- Barracuda
- Davis Coffer Lyons (agents, acted in sale of Alma pub) [understood that Antic were taking the pub - I updated them]
- Owners of the Grape and Grain
- Owners of The Herne and The Palmerston

I have also contacted the following restaurant operators (responses, where received, in square brackets):
- Zizzi
- Pizza Express [further info requested by agents, Restaurant Property Ltd, who also act for Zizzi, Giraffe and GBK amongst many others]
- GBK
- Nando's [email forwarded to 'relevant department' for consideration]
- Fineburger
- Giraffe
- Prezzo

[G-Man]

Wow, talk about covering all bases! Haven't been able to yet as days have been busy. Will call them Tuesday and get back. Thanks for the nudge!

Saw this sad but interesting article about Tesco metros and Sainsburys. I do hope the opening of a Sainsburys local doesn't do the same to our high street:

http://m.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/apr/ ... pe=article

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[JeeBee]

A GBK would do no harm to Sydenham, at least their milkshakes are pretty good!

Also, have you considered the Florence Brewery, owners(?) of The Paxton down in Gypsy Hill?

[ALIB]

Someone showed me a local paper yesterday, in which it stated The Greyhound had been 'accidentally' demolished.
I can't see the article on-line, and we know how accurate some reporters can be,...

[biscuitman1978]

Also, have you considered the Florence Brewery, owners(?) of The Paxton down in Gypsy Hill?

Many thanks for the suggestion. I've emailed them.

Someone showed me a local paper yesterday, in which it stated The Greyhound had been 'accidentally' demolished.
I can't see the article on-line, and we know how accurate some reporters can be,...

Interesting. BruceHarrison has already reported on the Greyhound wall design competition thread that:

The rear wall was always going to be re-built and this is where the winning design will go.

The developers had to remove the roof and some of the other external and internal walls. I understand all the slates from the roof and the London stock bricks will be re-used during the re-build.

There was considerable damage to the basement of the pub and floor beams caused by a fire at the pub a few years ago. I don't remember that happening but it might have been after the pub was closed. Anyone remember it?

The basement was also subsiding in the direction of the railway so this needed to be excavated and rebuilt.

So it will be virtually a new building but using all the old slates, bricks and even the Victorian tiles from the drinking corridor.

[ALIB]

Cheers for clarrifying.
The article I read was in The South London Press yesterday.
I did drive past the pub today, and there does seem to be only one wall remaining as i squinted through the sheeting.
I still feel the original purchaser of the site could have done a lot more to preserve the building, but i suppose the latest proposals are the best compromise