Many of my neighbours are retired/elderly (former professionals) and have lived in my road for 30 plus years. And although they obviously must love the area and people in some ways to have stayed here for so long they have moaned to me about how the high street has changed. Apparently there was a large department store and cinema on the high street. It sounded quite up market.
I think they have along with other locals successfully fended off unwanted development in the past but got to the age/stage in their lives where they just decided to shop elsewhere instead of trying to actively change things. (And from what I have heard a lot of businesses closed after the SavaCentre opened)
But now there is a younger crowd moving in and a general move towards preseving high streets for all sorts of reasons (including environmental because of car use) we might be able to restore it to its former glory. And I also think, judging by Narasoc's post, that there has been a general perception of Sydenham as being poor and dare I say 'not worth' investing in business-wise, and as the high street gradually began to not reflect the wide mix of people living here, started looking neglected and shabby, it sprialled into decline, but now thankfully things are on the up.
Is Sydenham Town anti local trader?
Thanks for the responses, Lee and Poppy.
My immediate thinking was that I think our high street shops serve its residents very well, most particularly by offering choice - even the pound shops aren't really "just" pound shops as they stock different and varied things. I'd hate for the street to get to the stage where we are limited by choice from chain stores, and the next high street away offers a pretty much identically limited choice.
Shops generally must provide what residents want to buy (rather than being a posh "pass through" where out of towners "might" stop for a meal etc occasionally. If shops are not supported and go out of business, I can't see how more boarded up shops would encourage a feeling to prospective shop investors of affluence.
Regarding tattiness, I do think that, traditionally, shops display their wares outside in a high street. It's hard to discrimate though to say that one is OK yet another is not. I do think that, e.g. "a mop" or "a bucket" is sufficiently representative of goods so that whole stacks of any single item is unnecessary - i.e. less is more. Also, one can hardly expect shopkeepers to put out expensive readily-nickable goods, so some latitude must surely be allowed.
That said, as shown in another photo elsewhere on here, my biggest gripe has always been the amount of pavement furniture, mostly relating to road users. Whatever happened to "pavements are for people"? The whole impetus seems to be to keep traffic speeding through Sydenham Road (with its concomitent danger to pedestrians) rather than a place where one has arrived at a destination.
I presume this is because TFL has a large say, but "moving traffic through" is not the objective of a high street in my opinion. An exaggeration, but I'm sure TFL would be happy if no shops existed and Sydenham Road could be made into a dual carriageway.
My bottom line? Either we support local shops or we lose them. Many people don't have the luxury of a car and bringing a few bags of shopping home from afar, on a bus, with children, is hardly a future I'd like to promote.
One idea might be to ask the shopkeepers themselves what sort of street they would like to see (via a suitable survey). At the moment, each is of course trying to ply his or her own trade, but if questions such as "How do you you expect to attract customers in the midst of this muddle?" Or, "How -ditto- cars passing through?" Perhaps those answers might be revealing?
Sorry for long post.
My immediate thinking was that I think our high street shops serve its residents very well, most particularly by offering choice - even the pound shops aren't really "just" pound shops as they stock different and varied things. I'd hate for the street to get to the stage where we are limited by choice from chain stores, and the next high street away offers a pretty much identically limited choice.
Shops generally must provide what residents want to buy (rather than being a posh "pass through" where out of towners "might" stop for a meal etc occasionally. If shops are not supported and go out of business, I can't see how more boarded up shops would encourage a feeling to prospective shop investors of affluence.
Regarding tattiness, I do think that, traditionally, shops display their wares outside in a high street. It's hard to discrimate though to say that one is OK yet another is not. I do think that, e.g. "a mop" or "a bucket" is sufficiently representative of goods so that whole stacks of any single item is unnecessary - i.e. less is more. Also, one can hardly expect shopkeepers to put out expensive readily-nickable goods, so some latitude must surely be allowed.
That said, as shown in another photo elsewhere on here, my biggest gripe has always been the amount of pavement furniture, mostly relating to road users. Whatever happened to "pavements are for people"? The whole impetus seems to be to keep traffic speeding through Sydenham Road (with its concomitent danger to pedestrians) rather than a place where one has arrived at a destination.
I presume this is because TFL has a large say, but "moving traffic through" is not the objective of a high street in my opinion. An exaggeration, but I'm sure TFL would be happy if no shops existed and Sydenham Road could be made into a dual carriageway.
My bottom line? Either we support local shops or we lose them. Many people don't have the luxury of a car and bringing a few bags of shopping home from afar, on a bus, with children, is hardly a future I'd like to promote.
One idea might be to ask the shopkeepers themselves what sort of street they would like to see (via a suitable survey). At the moment, each is of course trying to ply his or her own trade, but if questions such as "How do you you expect to attract customers in the midst of this muddle?" Or, "How -ditto- cars passing through?" Perhaps those answers might be revealing?
Sorry for long post.
Mosy - very good posting. I agree with every word.
You've got it wrong on TFL, however. They certainly aren't arguing for increased traffic flow at the cost of pedestrian safety or instead of a more attractive layout of pavements etc. The new layout will be achieved whilst maintaining the current vehicle flow in Sydenham Road but making it much safer and infinitely more pleasant for those on foot.
The traders have been surveyed in the way you suggest (as have local residents). The results of these surveys and a presentation of the new plans will be reveal at the Sydenham Regeneration meeting at 7pm this Thursday at the Naborhood Centre.
The danger of taking individual trader views in isolation, by the way, can be very dangerous. Many (not all) traders are interested in one thing only - how do I make more money. They aren't always interested in anything that goes on more than 6 feet from their front door.
You've got it wrong on TFL, however. They certainly aren't arguing for increased traffic flow at the cost of pedestrian safety or instead of a more attractive layout of pavements etc. The new layout will be achieved whilst maintaining the current vehicle flow in Sydenham Road but making it much safer and infinitely more pleasant for those on foot.
The traders have been surveyed in the way you suggest (as have local residents). The results of these surveys and a presentation of the new plans will be reveal at the Sydenham Regeneration meeting at 7pm this Thursday at the Naborhood Centre.
The danger of taking individual trader views in isolation, by the way, can be very dangerous. Many (not all) traders are interested in one thing only - how do I make more money. They aren't always interested in anything that goes on more than 6 feet from their front door.
Agree, but at the moment it looks like a carbon copy of most 'poor area' streets. It could be Deptford, New Cross, Lewisham etc etc. Small local shops and boutiques can really lift an area IF they look the part. There are already a few chains on the high street.mosy wrote:Thanks for the responses, Lee and Poppy.
I'd hate for the street to get to the stage where we are limited by choice from chain stores, and the next high street away offers a pretty much identically limited choice.
Yes, otherwise they wont be a very good business but I'd add that they have to pursuade customers to shop there, they have to sell themselves. You can't just rely on people coming into your shop/cafe//restaurant because you think what you sell or make is great. If people don't go into the shop you have failed. To get peopl einto the front doo it has to look the part. look at the business the Italian place has lost on the poasting on these forums because people who haven'tmosy wrote: Shops generally must provide what residents want to buy
As you said, if they don't sell what people want they will go out of business. I agree about boarded up shops, it's not helping Sugarhill. I think boarded up shops should have window displays, exhibitions or decorated boarding even if they are shut. An unattractive high street isn't helping anyone.mosy wrote: If shops are not supported and go out of business, I can't see how more boarded up shops would encourage a feeling to prospective shop investors of affluence.
I don't have so much of a problem with the shops that do this, you can still have things outside and make your shop look tidy.mosy wrote: Regarding tattiness, I do think that, traditionally, shops display their wares outside in a high street.
In general most of the high street looks tatty because of the shop fronts and signage. Roller shutters don't help making Sydenham High Street look like every other town centre in England.
Agree totally. Get rid of the clutter.mosy wrote: That said, as shown in another photo elsewhere on here, my biggest gripe has always been the amount of pavement furniture, mostly relating to road users. Whatever happened to "pavements are for people"?
I think it would be interesting to find out which businesses are thriving in the high street and which ones are struggling. It would be interesting to find out how peoples businesses have changed over the last few years as new people move into the area and if anyone has adapted their business accordingly.
Having been in a lot of houses in the area and spoken to a lot of people it seems as if most people shop elsewhere and pick up a few things on their way home. Lets face it, the high street isn't exactly bursting with shoppers on a Saturday is it?
There seems to be some fear that magically overnight Sydenham High Street will be full of Starbucks, Tesco, Gap, Zara, Cafe Nero, Mcdonalds. That simply ain't gonna happen. Anyway, even the chains in Sydenham High Street are a but rundown, look at the reviews of Sainsbury's, Somerfield, Boots etc on these very forums.
It's not all bad of course, but lets not pull the wool over our eyes, it certainly can improve. A lot. I think Sydenham deserves better.
Having attended the meeting (my first) until 9pm, I was surprised at just how many replies were "our hands are tied". Perhaps the new Assembly (I gather there will be one for each of the 16 wards) might bring some hope. The notice says an Assembly will "add value by: establishing a universal approach for all Lewisham's wards..."
I'm glad that an attendee queried that Sydenham should surely be able to put it's individual desires forward, which the Chair said that apparently it can. I guess time will tell whether Sydenham can have things outside of a standard framework or has to conform to "universal" policy.
I'm glad that an attendee queried that Sydenham should surely be able to put it's individual desires forward, which the Chair said that apparently it can. I guess time will tell whether Sydenham can have things outside of a standard framework or has to conform to "universal" policy.
I haven't religiously trawled through every post, so apologies if I'm just repeating what others may have said, but I would say Sydenham is more anti local shopper than anti local trader.
If I want to go shopping, I avoid Sydenham like the plague; it takes me ages to get there because of the stupid positioning of traffic lights and pedestrian controlled crossings and, when I do get there, there's nowhere to park my car, unless I happen to be lucky enough to stumble upon someone who's pulling out of a parking space in front of me.
Sydenham would actually have a lot to offer the casual shopper, if it weren't for the fact that every trip there needs to be planned with military precision and with hours to spare.
If I want to go shopping, I avoid Sydenham like the plague; it takes me ages to get there because of the stupid positioning of traffic lights and pedestrian controlled crossings and, when I do get there, there's nowhere to park my car, unless I happen to be lucky enough to stumble upon someone who's pulling out of a parking space in front of me.
Sydenham would actually have a lot to offer the casual shopper, if it weren't for the fact that every trip there needs to be planned with military precision and with hours to spare.
Hi Dutch Cow. I haven't seen Hot Fuzz, but from the internet synopsis it looks hysterical. In context, if I'm thinking along the right lines, the Chair at last night's meeting seemed quite surprised at just how many people attended and noted the commonality of strength of views re several issues.
I haven't seen the film, but if it depicted a village full of zombies (whatever), then no evidence from last night that it's similar to Sydenham as many peeps were quite animated, so no worries - we can sleep easy <wink> Thanks for a Friday giggle
Hello Rebelmc: Sensibly, they've kept the Garton Road car park free - it's the one accessed via the side road where Somerfield is on the corner, and there are usually empty spaces in there (I've not known it to be completely full personally).
There are plans afoot to change the lights and crossings, hopefully to benefit pedestrians to avoid accidents. They can't really do much about the volume of traffic of course and as a car driver myself (as well as being a pedestrian), I'd be somewhat on the back foot to complain about too much traffic ... LOL. It really is a balancing act - I don't envy the planners.
I haven't seen the film, but if it depicted a village full of zombies (whatever), then no evidence from last night that it's similar to Sydenham as many peeps were quite animated, so no worries - we can sleep easy <wink> Thanks for a Friday giggle
Hello Rebelmc: Sensibly, they've kept the Garton Road car park free - it's the one accessed via the side road where Somerfield is on the corner, and there are usually empty spaces in there (I've not known it to be completely full personally).
There are plans afoot to change the lights and crossings, hopefully to benefit pedestrians to avoid accidents. They can't really do much about the volume of traffic of course and as a car driver myself (as well as being a pedestrian), I'd be somewhat on the back foot to complain about too much traffic ... LOL. It really is a balancing act - I don't envy the planners.