Cash free buses

[marymck]

I thought there was going to be a proper consultation about this? How soon before we're hearing headlines of vulnerable customers left stranded or in danger?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/cash-free-buses

[Manwithaview1]

I thought there was going to be a proper consultation about this? How soon before we're hearing headlines of vulnerable customers left stranded or in danger?

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/cash-free-buses

I don't even think Visit Britain were told so now some tourists will be affected. Getting rid of conductors was the most ridiculous decision LT made esp when you factor in the internal vandalism etc.

[biscuitman1978]

How soon before we're hearing headlines of vulnerable customers left stranded or in danger?

The TfL website says:

If you don’t have enough credit on your Oyster card to pay the £1.45 fare or your Bus & Tram Pass or Travelcard has just expired, you can now make one more journey on a bus.

Won't that address the issue?

Getting rid of conductors was the most ridiculous decision LT made esp when you factor in the internal vandalism etc.

What vandalism? It's very rare to see a vandalised bus these days, and I say that as someone who travels on buses throughout London.

[Tim Lund]

Not again.

We had all this out on another thread at the time of the consultation, in which Mary gave absolutely no weight to the entirely reasonable concern of TfL to protect its drivers but eliminating their need to carry change, and so become a victim of attacks, and so also make buses safer for passengers.

Also no attention given to the flexibility Biscuitman1988 describes, which was a point made repeatedly on that thread.

She doesn't learn.

[Rachael]

In addition to the flexibility of having an 'angel pass' if you've run out of credit, bus drivers will continue to use the discretion they already have. Neither of my children has ever been refused a bus journey when they have forgotten their Oyster cards.

I don't think the fact that my opinion on this differs from Mary's reflects her ability to learn anything. Sweeping generalisations are rarely fair.

[marymck]

Not again.

We had all this out on another thread at the time of the consultation, in which Mary gave absolutely no weight to the entirely reasonable concern of TfL to protect its drivers but eliminating their need to carry change, and so become a victim of attacks, and so also make buses safer for passengers.

Also no attention given to the flexibility Biscuitman1988 describes, which was a point made repeatedly on that thread.

She doesn't learn.

Sigh. No Tim, she quite capable of learning when there's a lesson to be learnt. She just doesn't happen to come round to your way of thinking. You may be quite happy believing you are always right, but we don't all have to agree with you.

Indeed, that thread that Tim harks back to (which was flagging up the PROPOSED consultation) presented very good reasons for retaining the option of paying cash. Alas, Tim showed no empathy for those who have on occasions found themselves needing to pay cash (e.g. the Chinese gentleman I referred to in that thread).

Such a shame too that Tim unfairly ignored the fact that my post was written BEFORE Biscuitman's. But, as it happens, just last week I was on the bus on two separate occasions when ladies Oyster cards had run out of credit. In the first case, the lady paid cash. In the second case, the lady got off the bus, struggling to carry a huge amount of groceries. In neither case did the bus driver offer to let them remain on the bus without paying.

Clearly, not all bus drivers are angels.

For those who are interested or concerned, this ruling comes into effect on 5th July. Hence the relevance of my post. I made it in the Town Hall, rather than the bear pit of the pub, because many regular bus passengers, like me, may have been unaware this change is imminent.

& thank you Rachael.

I hate it that every time I post anything he can twist, misrepresent, quote out of context and attack me on, I can always rely on Tim to do so. Lent was a joy! It was so civilized on here. But now woe betide me if I express an opinion.

Mike was right. Life is too short and precious. I've quite enough on my plate not to have to deal with the distress and stress of a stalker with too much time on his hands and a mission to hurt. Few know the back story on this and will think I'm over reacting. But believe me, I'm not.

[Bobbins]

I received consultation on this a few months ago. But then I probably ticked a box many moons ago saying I didn't mind being contacted by tfl...

I was a bit concerned at first, but then struggled to recall the last time I'd paid cash as it's so much more expensive. Very glad they included an extra journey allowance, that's pretty handy. And as we can now pay with contactless bank cards, that might make life easier when I get around to ordering one of those from the bank.

I've always been fairly lucky with drivers who have let me and the kids on when I've not got quite enough money on the oyster. Most tourists would surely benefit from getting Oyster asap as it does make travel so much cheaper. Cash-less bus travel has been around on various routes up in London for a while now.

I hadn't even considered it from the POV of drivers safety by not having to have cash, that's a good point.

[Manwithaview1]

How soon before we're hearing headlines of vulnerable customers left stranded or in danger?

The TfL website says:

If you don’t have enough credit on your Oyster card to pay the £1.45 fare or your Bus & Tram Pass or Travelcard has just expired, you can now make one more journey on a bus.

Won't that address the issue?

Getting rid of conductors was the most ridiculous decision LT made esp when you factor in the internal vandalism etc.

What vandalism? It's very rare to see a vandalised bus these days, and I say that as someone who travels on buses throughout London.

The vandalsim in buses, before the cameras went in, the scratched panes of glass on the top decks, cost thousands a year per bus.

[Robin Orton]

The likely scenario in my case is that I have inadvertently left my Freedom pass at home. What can I do then if I'm stranded in the West End at 2.00 am (admittedly, many hours later than my usual bedtime)?

[hairybuddha]

Would I be right in saying that in the above case TFL would give me one free journey of £1.45? Because the alternative is a taxi or a long walk.

Yes

[Rachael]

The likely scenario in my case is that I have inadvertently left my Freedom pass at home. What can I do then if I'm stranded in the West End at 2.00 am (admittedly, many hours later than my usual bedtime)?

The likely scenario is that the bus driver will use his or her discretion and let you on. If you look your age, or thereabouts, he or she will know that your bus journey is likely to be a free one. It's the same for school children. They need their Zip card (the junior version of the Oyster) to prove their entitlement to free bus journeys. If they've lost or forgotten their Zip card, the bus drivers let them on anyway because they are clearly children and entitled to ride for free. Recently my daughter, aged 16, lost her Zip card transferring from one bus to another. She wasn't in uniform and could easily have looked old enough to be a paying customer, but the driver on the next bus she needed to take let her on anyway when she explained the situation.

People should also remember that the buses will also accept payment from contactless debit cards. When your current debit card expires you'll get one of these from your bank.

[Robin Orton]

Thanks, Rachael. I certainly look (as well as feel) my age, so I hope I'd be OK.

I wondered about these contactless card thingies. Pity my current debit card doesn't expire until 2017! Perhaps I could get one from my bank before then - but should I bother? Wouldn't it just be one more card to lose?

[Rachael]

Thanks, Rachael. I certainly look (as well as feel) my age, so I hope I'd be OK.

I wondered about these contactless card thingies. Pity my current debit card doesn't expire until 2017! Perhaps I could get one from my bank before then - but should I bother? Wouldn't it just be one more card to lose?

My husband lost his wallet and got a new card which turned out to be one of the first contactless ones, that's one way to get a new one! You could ask your bank if you can 'upgrade' to a contactless card. It would replace your current one, so not an extra card to lose.

[biscuitman1978]

Getting rid of conductors was the most ridiculous decision LT made esp when you factor in the internal vandalism etc.

What vandalism? It's very rare to see a vandalised bus these days, and I say that as someone who travels on buses throughout London.

The vandalsim in buses, before the cameras went in, the scratched panes of glass on the top decks, cost thousands a year per bus.

True, but now we have CCTV, as you point out. Problem largely solved. Conductors on every bus would be great, but it's far more expensive than installing CCTV.

[Annie.]

I may be being thick here, but how does the contactless card work? And is it "safe"

[Rachael]

I may be being thick here, but how does the contactless card work? And is it "safe"

It's a debit card, and you can only use the contactless technology for payments up to £20 (at the moment). It works like an Oyster card - you tap it on a card reader enabled to use it. So on some card readers, you'll see a symbol a bit like a wifi symbol. This means that instead of inserting the card into the reader and putting in your pin, you tap it and the sale is authorised. Not that many shops have changed their chip-and-pin cards to be contactless as well, so a lot of the time you'll still do it the old way.

I assume the limit up to £20 means that if you lose your card or it's stolen, the thieves won't be able to buy much with it. And you can't use the contactless tech to withdraw money.

One thing you have to watch out for is 'card clash'. If you have more than one contactless card (either Oyster or bank card) in your wallet, you need to take out the card you want to use and only tap that, so the reader knows which card to debit.

[Annie.]

Thanks Rachael,
Not sure I understand it totally though, if it's a debit card is it linked to your bank? Like say Barclays etc? Can you use it in a "Hole in the Wall"

[Rachael]

Thanks Rachael,
Not sure I understand it totally though, if it's a debit card is it linked to your bank? Like say Barclays etc? Can you use it in a "Hole in the Wall"

Yes, it's your debit card, same as you have now, but with the added contactless bit. It will also remain a chip-and-pin card. When your current debit card expires, your new one will have contactless tech built in.

[Annie.]

Thanks Rachael, that sounds useful!

[Manwithaview1]

What vandalism? It's very rare to see a vandalised bus these days, and I say that as someone who travels on buses throughout London.

The vandalsim in buses, before the cameras went in, the scratched panes of glass on the top decks, cost thousands a year per bus.

True, but now we have CCTV, as you point out. Problem largely solved. Conductors on every bus would be great, but it's far more expensive than installing CCTV.

True but you have one pair of eyes per bus rather than one pair of eyes on 64. The problem initially went away but has returned in recent months as the youths have worked out no one is watching the CCTV all the time for that bus. I'll try to find the London Chamber of Commerce report in 1994 or 95 saying how much the lack of conductors had slowed buses and consequently London traffic. IIRC it was about 2.5Billion cost to London over 3 years.