Save the Kent House Tavern

[Conker]

Butting in here a bit, as an exile,I really cannot understand this fanatical defence of a load of grotty drinking holes. I used to live midway between the Alexandra and the Crooked Billet , and while the Billet was merely a grubby depressing hole, the Alexandra was an absolute pit, hangout of pond life and scum of all kinds, and the crime and anti social behaviour from the Alex was indeed a prime factor in my leaving the area.

Lock-ins till 2 or 3 am, a real thieves kitchen, when they built that horrendous block of pink and blue flats behind t I watched building supplies being wheeled off that site to behind the pub; not much point complaining to the police as the Panda car was parked behind under the railway.

Hot summer days were a nightmare as the vested shaved head lowlife would stand outside on the corner throwing bottles into the path of cars halting at the junction.
Evenings were no better as the customers staggering home would relieve themselves in any handy doorway,mostly mine, or alternatively crap in the bushes of the sad landscaped area on the corner of Bycroft street.

I once made the mistake of going in for a pint there; plastic beer glasses always a bad sign, with the brain dead types who you dare not look in the eye in case they ask the dreaded and unanswerable question, 'ere you looking at my bird'.

Drink up, keep looking at the bottom of the glass and back out slowly, not looking at anyone.

When I saw this dive had closed I gave a little cry of joy at last, at last! 30yrs too late for my peace and quiet.
demolish it and build something useful, like somewhere to park a bottle bank.

There are and always were far too many pubs in and around se26, I'll mourn none of them, dismal sad cold creepy holes hang out of social rejects and stinking of old ale and fags is my memory.

Other memories may of course differ.

[G-Man]

To be honest Conker it depends wholly on who is running the pub and how it is managed. The microbrewery Dark Knights have taken over the Alexandra and will no doubt turn it into a family friendly food and ale/craft beer pub attracting a certain clientele. As I'm sure would happen to the Alexandra.

The Catford Bridge Tavern is a perfect example of bad pub turned good by Antic. The Dolphin is another example, I could go on.

The demographic of this area has changed over the years and consumers want different things. And, like it or not they want family friendly pubs with good food and drink.

G-man

[Bovine Juice]

Conker, I understand your cynicism, your recollections of the Alex are probably not far off my own. However, the area has changed a lot in recent times. In your day the Bridge House Tavern by Penge West was the sort of nasty hellhole where a barman might be set alight (one sadly was a few years ago - he died as a result). Now it's a gastropub with a theatre above it and very successful. I'm not arguing that every pub should become a gastropub but where they've clearly failed as a standard old fashioned pool/darts/skytv/stella effort then surely there should be a chance to re-pitch it at those of us who love proper beer in a nice friendly environment (and if it chooses to serve decent grub too then all the better).

Beer Rebellion in Gipsy Hill and the Catford Bridge Tavern (now the Constitutional Club) in Catford have shown what can be achieved by forward thinking pub companies. Two such companies wanted to take over both the Alex and KHT and in both instances a developer with no wish to own a pub and with every wish to make money from letting/selling flats stepped in. Let's stop this happening and let's encourage the more positive social assets

[Bovine Juice]

Sorry, I didn't see G-Man had posted, saying pretty much the same stuff as me.

[Bovine Juice]

G-Man

It's Late Knights (the Penge micro-brewery firm who own Beer Rebellion), not Dark Knights (who sound like something you'd buy at Games Workshop). Unless something has changed in the last few days, Late Knights, have been in discussions with the new owner of the Alex with regards the possibility of LK running the bar in the building (re-development as a hostel was rejected) but the outcome of those discussions are still unclear.

[Conker]

well, hmmmmm.
I'll take your word for it.
When I lived near the Alexander dive I use to drive out to a pub near Cowden 30 miles away for a quiet pint rather than venture into any local.
In fact in my teddy boy days me and a mate and considered the Black Raven in Bishopsgate our regular drinking hole, and less chance of random aggro than any in SE20 or 26.

I doubt anyone here knew that Black Raven back then but believe me it was no knitting circle.

Woodman I remember as a real old geezers pub; Bricklayers Arms, dull cold and miserable beyond bearance; Pawleyne Arms always stank of Pee to me maybe it was the Mens lavvy behind it; Maple road had a real ale pub on the right hand side, on a corner which wasn't bad, there was another opposite the Watermans asylum,which had a whelk stall outside, I never went in, but would delight in treating tipsy first timers to a plate of whelks; there was a pub on the side of Penge East station that seemed to grow criminal types.
Never went in the Bridge tavern, or the Greyhound or Dolphin, there was another old geezers pub on the corner of Hazel Grove that my great uncle Charlie used to totter into, never went in there because I didn't have a cardigan or slippers tatty enough.

I did use to frequent another dive at Bell Green, where we biker hooligans would drink stout and cider, [that's in the same glass]probably the reason I now drink nothing but wine.


Other than that Dulwich Woodhouse and The Grove Tavern mainly because you could sit outside and for some reason they attracted girls, or rather adventurous females.

Which was nice.

[Tim Lund]

Tim - I'm not misguided, I'm passionate about pubs. Imagine if someone decided to turn your allotments into houses?

I wouldn't be caught special pleading, or trying to get the local authority to change planning rules for my benefit. I prefer to make an effort to reach out to the local community, e.g. with helping guide groups of school kids round our site. Do you take school kids on pub crawls?

Or a local park where people can meet? Or a local cafe used by the community? Or a library? Well to me it's the same thing.

G-Man

It's hard to compare intensity of your passion for pubs with my commitment to parks - they are both rather subjective. But I would argue that parks deliver the greater public benefit. They are open to all, not just those with enough money to buy a drink, and they are also open to sections of society who will not go into pubs, for religious reasons, or because they are children, or caring for children. Spending time in parks does not have the adverse health effects of consuming alcohol, and provides the opportunity for all sorts of positively healthy activities, as well as just being there, either on your own, in your own mental privacy, or socialising with friends. So I just do not accept the moral equivalence of parks and pubs.

Pubs are businesses like many others, including cafés, but because of the downside of associated alcohol abuse, requiring special regulation. They should stand on their own two feet, and have absolutely no reason for special protection.

BTW, re the Forest Hill Hotel, see the thread I just started on SE23.com

Forest Hill Hotel, aka Wenlock House

[G-Man]

Ha ha BovineJuice for some reason I always get their name wrong!!!

G-Man