Save the Kent House Tavern

[Bovine Juice]

The Kent House Tavern is a small, attractive pub on the borders of Sydenham and Penge. It has been shut for over a year, having been sold by auction to developers.

An application is now with Bromley council to convert it to 8 one bed flats with a large commercial unit or units on the ground floor. The closing date for comments on the re-development is 20th May.

This is potentially another community asset about to be lost, even though at least two very reputable pub companies have expressed an interest in continuing to run this as a pub. Both of them run successful, excellent trouble-free pubs elsewhere in the local area.

There is no mention of car parking but none of the roads in the immediate vicinity (Thesiger, Kent House or Somerville) have any spare capacity for either more resident parking or short term shopper parking.

A Tescos/Sainsburys, etc there with their storage cages, litter mess and considerable traffic will gridlock and mess up the area.

Penge may indeed need more family accommodation but multiple single bedroom flats in this location is not a solution to that problem.

The council planning app is here:

https://searchapplications.bromley.gov. ... 4N4BTJX000

And the link to place a comment is here:

https://searchapplications.bromley.gov. ... 4N4BTJX000

May I ask you to do so before Tuesday when yet another community place is lost to developers. Many thanks

[Tim Lund]

Given the off High Street location, and the rather nice architecture, I think it's a more likely candidate for a sensitive residential conversion such as this similar era former pub in Forest Hill

[Bovine Juice]

Tim

I and many others don't want a sensitive conversion, I don't want a conversion FULL STOP.

We don't need yet another Tescos (I am within a 15 minute walk of 4 genuine ones and 1 Tescos under another name already) with all their throughput, lorry deliveries and litter in the street

We don't need a sensitive or otherwise load of flats, with all their cars, in a location which is at the end of a cul-de-sac.

We need a nice quiet pub, which is precisely what this should be, and could be.

Just because battles have been lost in the past doesn't mean we need to wave a white flag at the first sight of the enemy!

[marymck]

These were the sales details ...

http://picar01.hosting.zen.co.uk/assets ... 2_page.pdf

And here (hopefully ... I never seem to have any luck posting images!) is a photo ...

[imgwww.google.co.uk/maps/@51.416387,-0.045298,3a,75y,315.16h,92.96t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1stJPJ16ThU78rLp88BC8rbg!2e0[/img]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.41638 ... BC8rbg!2e0

[Bovine Juice]

These were the sales details ...

http://picar01.hosting.zen.co.uk/assets ... 2_page.pdf

And here (hopefully ... I never seem to have any luck posting images!) is a photo ...

It's a nice looking pub and has a central bar with the old style three linked rooms round it. One of the rooms is a fair bit larger and is used for functions.

[Eagle]

Are any Pubs to be left in Sydenham. What is going on. Where do people meet and solve the world's problems.

Been to the Prince Alfred many times over last 47 years or so. Landlord used to be a lovely old gentleman who always wore a suit and maintained high standards of behavior , and looked after his Beer.

It is absolute rubbish to say should be converted to residential. It is the nearest pub to many households.

A Pub well managed with decent real ales would thrive.

Let us hear no more from the destructive element wanting to close every Pub. Anyone would think it was Chicago in the Prohibitions , without the speak easy.

[Eagle]

Profound apologies. Must be drunk , wrong Pub.

Only ever went to KHT a few times. Never any good beer.

However it ought to be retained and good quality beer served.

[hairybuddha]

Good news = One less depressing boozer (barely) propped up by the local alcoholics.

Bad news = It will probably end up as a depressing mini supermarket and some dreary flats.

On balance I can live with it. At least there will be a few more jobs in the area.

[marymck]

I found this quite interesting, from Wikipedia ...

Penge is home to a number of taverns and public houses, indeed it was noted in Victorian times for its '25 pubs to the square mile'. The Crooked Billet is by far the oldest.
The Pawleyne Arms is currently the terminus for the 176 bus service. It was previously an intermediate turning point for short running buses on the 12, 75 and 194 bus services, becoming the southern terminus for route 12 between 1986 and 1988 when the route was again shortened.
The public houses in Maple Road have nearly all changed their names. The Dew Drop Inn was known as The Market Tavern (and featured in the television series The Bill as the Market Tavern in Canley Market)before its closure. The London Tavern became The Hop Exchange and then The Hop House. As of 2006, it was closed, and as of 2009 the pub's facade has been removed and the building is undergoing conversion into residential accommodations. The Lord Palmerston has been delicensed and is now a pizza outlet. The King William IV became The Crown and is now The Maple Tree. Only The Golden Lion has retained its name, although it has extended its premises substantially; it was listed in every edition of the Good Beer Guide from 1976 to 1987.[18]
Other public houses in the area include: The Goldsmith Arms, Bridge House Tavern, Queen Adelaide Arms (closed 2010), The Alexandra (closed), Graces (formerly Dr W G Grace), Kent House Tavern, Robin Hood (closed, subsequently destroyed by fire in 2006 and demolished), Royal Oak (closed 2011), The Mitre, The Goat House (destroyed by fire and now demolished), The Waterman's Arms (now Superdrug), The Anchor (closed circa 1910), The General Simpson (closed), The General Jackson (closed), The Retreat (closed), The Cornish Arms (closed), The Railway Bell (closed), The Thicket Tavern and Hollywood East (formerly The Park Tavern). The last named was the venue for the inquest into the Murder of Harriet Staunton in 1877.

I don't know how up to date/accurate the list is.

[Tim Lund]

Tim

I and many others don't want a sensitive conversion, I don't want a conversion FULL STOP.

We don't need yet another Tescos (I am within a 15 minute walk of 4 genuine ones and 1 Tescos under another name already) with all their throughput, lorry deliveries and litter in the street

We don't need a sensitive or otherwise load of flats, with all their cars, in a location which is at the end of a cul-de-sac.

We need a nice quiet pub, which is precisely what this should be, and could be.

Just because battles have been lost in the past doesn't mean we need to wave a white flag at the first sight of the enemy!

I don't particularly want a conversion either, but if you want to stop conversions to residential, it would be better to pick the right battles - and that would be with the forces who prevent the wider expansion of the housing supply.

[Bovine Juice]

Of that list The Thicket has already gone and the Kent House is closed.

[G-Man]

Happy to help where I can. It's happening to far too many pubs.

Tim: If all pubs that closed turned into residential properties we would have none left. We need to fight to save these places. Especially if pub companies are interested. And the development you showed I cycle past often, and have done for over a year. Still the units aren't sold. Sold being the operative word, little or no social housing there so defeating the object of decreasing a housing 'shortage'.

Now - CAN WE KEEP ON TOPIC and talk about SAVING the pub?

G-Man

[Tim Lund]

Happy to help where I can. It's happening to far too many pubs.

Tim: If all pubs that closed turned into residential properties we would have none left. We need to fight to save these places. Especially if pub companies are interested. And the development you showed I cycle past often, and have done for over a year. Still the units aren't sold. Sold being the operative word, little or no social housing there so defeating the object of decreasing a housing 'shortage'.

Now - CAN WE KEEP ON TOPIC and talk about SAVING the pub?

G-Man

If you want to divert me, how about you starting a thread about how we do expand the housing supply? Until such time I will happily and repeatedly point out how misguided campaginers such as you aggravate the housing shortage.

[Bovine Juice]

Only ever went to KHT a few times. Never any good beer.

However it ought to be retained and good quality beer served.

This is all true, the beer was awful BUT Late Knights bid 10% over the asking price for this pub and lost. I'm led to believe Antic were another bidder. Both of these run pubs with terrific beer, I'm sure you'll agree.

[Bovine Juice]

Happy to help where I can. It's happening to far too many pubs.

If all pubs that closed turned into residential properties we would have none left. We need to fight to save these places. Especially if pub companies are interested.

G-Man

^^^ Thank you ^^^

G-Man, in the short term, can you sign the petition I linked to.

[G-Man]

Do you want me to comment on the planning application? I couldn't find a link to a petition. Unless I'm going mad.

Tim - I'm not misguided, I'm passionate about pubs. Imagine if someone decided to turn your allotments into houses? Or a local park where people can meet? Or a local cafe used by the community? Or a library? Well to me it's the same thing.

G-Man

[leenewham]

Or perhaps you are aggravating the pub shortage Tim?

[Bovine Juice]

Do you want me to comment on the planning application? I couldn't find a link to a petition. Unless I'm going mad.

G-Man

Yes, comment on the planning application, please.

[marymck]

Bromley refused the Alexandra planning application. Here is the decision letter, setting out the reasons ...

https://searchapplications.bromley.gov. ... 452228.pdf

[Annie.]

Couldn't get the link Mary, although I can't really object to the planning as I don't live nearby anymore, however, it would be an idea to use the reasons for the objections that were used to stop the development of the Alexandra on the application for the development of the KHT.