Willow Close

[Frowzy]

Hi there,

I am currently doing some research for a university project on the Sydenham area; in particular that of the Willow Walk/Way/Close area during WWII. I have collected numerous photographs of Willow Way/Walk post-war, which helpfully depict which buildings survived the war in tact. However, using OS mapping, it is clear that a few buildings have gone missing and, therefore, I would like to put my investigation out there to see if anyone else has any information regarding this.

Firstly, this image shows, what i believe to be using old mapping, properties no.36,38,40,42,44,46,48,50 and 52 Willow Way.




Although the original photo suggests it is no.32-50, mapping shows that the semi-detached house of numbers 32 and 34 were separate from these terraces. This image shows number 28 & 30 and I believed that houses 32&34 are of similar ilk. However, there is no trace of such buildings after WWII and post-WWII mapping indicates the house to no longer be in existence.



London County Council Bomb damage maps show very little damage in this area and, considering the buildings surrounding no.32&34 remained after WWII, i am unsure as to why these were destroyed. Were they demolished as part of a redevelopment project or by German Ordnance?

Also, I would like to know a little more about the buildings behind these houses, now occupied by the Sydenham Neighbourhood Depot. Historical maps suggest it was once a lumber mill, but Post WWII mapping indicates that it was occupied by residential properties, under the road name Willow Close. The entrance to which can be seen in this photograph, behind numbers 18-20 Willow Way:



Mapping suggests that a building in the centre here was occupied by 4 residential properties numbered 1-4. There is also an L shaped building behind houses 32-34 Willow Way which is unidentified, as seen in:



Any light shed on these buildings would also be very helpful.

In summary, any information that can be provided on either no.s 32&34 Willow Way/Walk and the buildings behind them, during the pre and post WWII period, would be greatly appreciated. Also, a thank you to dwillis1963 for providing the images posted.

I look forward to any help or advice in my investigation,

Regards,

Matt

[Falkor]

Presumably you already checked out this topic? There's a few extra pics, including of the dairy.
http://sydenham.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4327

I can't add anything else. Not sure what the Sydenham Neighbourhood depot? (not visited the area lately) I thought that photo was looking towards Sydenham Girls School (the building seen in the background in the far right?)

I might have some aerial photos that I got from Lewisham Local Studies that could aid with identification, but they are currently in a box somewhere, unscanned.

Your best bet might be to contact Steve Grindlay! I don't think he's active here much these days, but I messaged him on Facebook recently about a postcard. He sent me a database about 10 years ago, which he's probably updated tenfold since then; the information he's collected on Sydenhams residents might help identify the buildings and what they were used for, etc

Code: Select all

FName	LName	Occupation	Born	Died	No 1	Name 1	Street 1	From 1	To 1	No 2	Name 2	Street 2	From 2	To 2	Name 3	No 3	Street 3	From 3	To 3	Notes
John	Scudder	labourer; gardener (1861)	1803			Willow Row, 7	Willow Way	1841	1851			Kirkdale	1851	1851	Friends Place, 2		Wells Road	1861	1861	"Son of Thomas and Ann, born Sydenham 1803. Married to Ann, father of Eliza (born Sydenham 1831), Ann, Daniel, Ellen, Henry, Elizabeth, Mary, William, John, George, Caroline, Henry

http://www.fletcherproject.co.uk/webbextras.html#scudder

Census (1851) - next to the Woodman"
Ann	Scudder		abt 1814			Willow Row, 7	Willow Way	1841	1841			Kirkdale	1851	1851						"Married to John

Census (1851) - next to the Woodman"
Elizabeth	Scudder		abt 1836			Willow Row, 7	Willow Way	1841	1841			Kirkdale	1851	1851						"Daughter of John and Ann

Census (1851) - next to the Woodman"
George	Wood	sawyer	abt 1798				London Road	1841	1841			Willow Road	1851	1851						Married to Mary Ann, father of Mary, George
Mary Ann	Wood		abt 1797				London Road	1841	1841			Willow Road	1851	1851						Married to George
George	Wood	bricklayer	abt 1836				London Road	1841	1841			Willow Road	1851	1851						Son of George and Mary Ann, born Sydenham
Thomas	Baker	ag. labourer, sawyer,	abt 1813		42		Willow Way	1841	1867	7		Willow Walk	1869	1869						"married to Amelia, father of George and Lewis

rail-road officer, 1845"
Amelia	Baker		abt 1816				Willow Way	1841	1851											married to Thomas
George	Scudder	fencer, carpenter	abt 1822				London Road	1841	1841		Scudders Row, 9	Willow Way	1851	1871						"Born Sydenham, son of Thomas and Sarah, unmarried

Unmarried, living with his widowed sister, Elizabeth Hill, in 1851"
Ann	Scudder	servant	abt 1833			Willow Row, 7	Willow Way	1841	1841			Dartmouth Road	1851	1851						"Daughter of John and Ann

Servant to Samuel Morriss"
George William Thorne	Wiggins		1866	1925	7		Willow Way	1866	1866											WIGGINS, George William Thorne Birth : 18 FEB 1866 7 Willow Road, Sydenham, Kent Death : 3 SEP 1925 Heston, Middlesex, age 59 Gender: Male Parents:Father: WIGGINS, Charles James Mother: THORNE, Mary Ann
Thomas	Scudder	sawyer; carpenter (1851) rustic-worker; rustic seat, chair & summer house mfr	1819				London Road	1840	1841		Rustic Works	Kirkdale	1843	1872	Scudders Row	28	Willow Walk	1851	1881	"Born Sydenham, son of Thomas and Sarah, married to Rebecca, father of Rose, Frederick, Emily, Ellen, Thomas (born abt 1861), 

T2838; T2839 - 2839 described as ""house, garden and buildings"" in 1843 - this is the building that was to become the Woodman.

also sometimes 45 Willow Way

""London Road"" was part of, or near, Sydenham Hill"
Charles James	Wiggins		1828	1881	7	Billings Cottages, 7	Willow Way	1851	1872											THORNE, Mary Ann Birth : ABT. 1832 Colchester, Essex Death : AFT. 1881 Gender: Female Family:Marriage: ABT. 1851 Spouse WIGGINS, Charles James Birth : ABT. 1828 Clapham, Surrey Death : AFT. 1881 Gender: Male Children: WIGGINS, Mary Ann Birth : ABT. 1852 Sydenham, Kent Death : AFT. 1871 Gender: Female WIGGINS, Jane Birth : ABT. 3 Sydenham, Kent Death : AFT. 1871 Gender: Female WIGGINS, John T Birth : ABT. 1854 Sydenham, Kent Death : AFT. 1871 Gender: Male WIGGINS, Eliza C Birth : ABT. 1856 Sydenham, Kent Death : AFT. 1871 Gender: Female WIGGINS, Alice E Birth : ABT. 1858 Sydenham, Kent Death : AFT. 1881 Gender: Female WIGGINS, Emma H Birth : 1860 Sydenham, Kent Death : AFT. 1881 Gender: Female WIGGINS, Charles James Birth : ABT. 1863 Sydenham, Kent Death : AFT. 1881 Gender: Male WIGGINS, George William Thorne WIGGINS, Rosemere C Birth : ABT. 1869 Sydenham, Kent Death : AFT. 1881 Gender: Female WIGGINS, Annie L Birth : ABT. 1872 Sydenham, Kent Death : AFT. 1881 Gender: female
James	Scudder	sawyer	abt 1817					1841	1841		Scudders Row	Willow Way	1851	1851						"Son of Thomas and Sarah

Unmarried, living with his widowed sister, Elizabeth Hill, in 1851"
William	Scudder	carpenter	abt 1831	bef 1881			London Road	1841	1841		Scudders Cottages, 3	Willow Walk	1861	1871						"Son of Thomas and Sarah, born Sydenham, married to Mary, father of Ellen, Kate, Lydia, Maude, Harry, Clara

Burt (1862), Aspinall (1867) - ""38 Willow Way"""
Stephen	Scudder	sawyer	abt 1834				London Road	1841	1841		High Street	Kirkdale	1851	1851	Scudders Row, 9		Willow Way	1871	1871	Son of Thomas and Sarah, unmarried
Mary	Scudder	laundress	1834		34		Willow Way	1881	1881	32		Willow Way	1891	1901						Born Godalming, widow of William, born 1831, widowed by 1881, mother of Lydia (born Sydenham abt 1863), Maud, Harry, Clara, Roger, Janet
Daniel	Scudder	brickmaker (1861)	abt 1834			Willow Row, 7	Willow Way	1841	1841		Friends Place, 2	Wells Road	1861	1861						Born Sydenham, son of John and Ann, married to Mary Ann, father of Elizabeth, Esther
Charles	Waghorn	sawyer	abt 1832				Sydenham Road	1841	1841			Willow Way	1851	1851	Arthur Terrace, 2		Acacia Road	1867	1869	"Son of Charles and Ann

Census (1851) - lodging with John Winton"
William	Early	gardener	abt 1798			Willow Row, 6	Willow Way	1841	1841			Wells Park Road	1851	1865						"T2796; T2797; T2798; T2799; T2800 (& others; house & garden)

married to Harriot, father of William, Henry, Lydia, Maria, Mary Ann, Joseph, Albert. Also married to Maria and Charlotte

""Earley"" - Tithe Map (1843)

Gardener to the Smiths at Newlands"
William Thomas	Early	gardener	abt 1830				Willow Way	1841	1841		Russell Place, 1	Cheseman Street	1869	1881						son of William and Harriot, married to Sarah
Ellen	Scudder		abt 1836			Willow Row, 7	Willow Way	1841	1841											Daughter of John and Ann
Mary	Scudder		abt 1840			Willow Row, 7	Willow Way	1841	1841			Kirkdale	1851	1851						"Daughter of John and Ann

Census (1851) - next to the Woodman"
George	Selley	shoemaker	abt 1829				Sydenham Road	1841	1841			Willow Way	1851	1851						Son of William and Elizabeth, married to Mary Ann
Sarah	Scudder		abt 1795	1874			London Road	1841	1841		High Street	Kirkdale	1851	1851	Scudders Row, 9	44	Willow Way	1871	1871	"Married to Thomas, widowed in 1863, mother of George, Stephen

Aspinall (1867) - ""44 Willow Way"""
Daniel	Bolton	ag. Labourer	abt 1797				Willow Way	1841	1841											married to Elizabeth
Elizabeth	Bolton		abt 1799				Willow Way	1841	1841											married to Daniel
Nelson	Toop	shoemaker	abt 1813				Willow Way	1847	1864			Dartmouth Road	1869	1869						"Married to Phoebe, father of Paul, Rebecca, Charles (born Sydenham abt 1842), Louise, Nelson, Phoebe, Harriet, Ellen

Farmery (1869) - next to Wesleyan Chapel"
James	Shorter	gardener	abt 1798				Willow Way	1851	1851											Married to Catherine, father of John (bap St Barts abt 1832), Caroline, William, James, Thomas, Charles, William
George	Baker		abt 1845				Willow Way	1851	1851											son of Thomas and Amelia
Elizabeth	Hill		abt 1824			Scudders Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Daughter of Thomas and Sarah Scudder, widowed by 1851
Walter	Hutchings		abt 1850			Scudder's Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Son of Daniel and Jane
Louisa Jame	Hutchings		abt 1844			Scudder's Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Daughter of Daniel and Jane
Henry Thomas	Hutchings		abt 1846			Scudder's Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Son of Daniel and Jane
Charles	Shorter		abt 1843				Willow Way	1851	1851											Son of James and Catherine
Jane	Hutchings		abt 1813			Scudder's Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Married to Daniel
Daniel Henry	Hutchings	bricklayer (journeyman)	abt 1816			Scudder's Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Born Deptford, married to Jane, father of William (born Sydenham abt 1842), Louisa, Henry, Rose, Walter
William Thomas	Hutchings		abt 1842			Scudder's Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Son of Daniel and Jane
Mary Ann	Piggott		abt 1851		175	York Terrace, 1	Dartmouth Road	1851	1851	6		Hamburgh Place	1861	1861		75	Willow Walk	1881	1881	Daughter of William and Elizabeth, by 1881 married to James Banks
Lizzie	Bolton		abt 1845				Willow Way	1851	1851											grand-daughter of Frances
Rosa Julia	Hutchings		abt 1848			Scudder's Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Daughter of Daniel and Jane
Frances	Bolton	laundress	abt 1821				Willow Way	1851	1851											daughter of Frances
James	Price	baker	abt 1831				Willow Way	1851	1851											
Albert	Early		abt 1836				Willow Way	1851	1851											son of Albert and Susannah
Albert	Early	gardener	1823	1896		Rockingham Cottage	Willow Way	1851	1869											"married to Susannah, father of Albert, Matilda, Emma


Deptford (1853) - ""dealer in tobacco""
Clark (1858) - ""Rockingham cottage"""
Thomas	Beadle	inn				Joiners Arms	Willow Way	1847	1847											
James W	Barber		abt 1850				Willow Way	1851	1851											nephew of Robert Hicks
Nelson	Toop						Willow Way	1851	1851											Son of Nelson and Phoebe
Joseph John	Earl	beer retailer			61	Three Brewers	Willow Way	1896	1902											
Frances	Bolton	pauper, formerly laundress	abt 1783				Willow Way	1851	1851											widow, mother of Frances, grandmother of Lizzie
John	Fielding	ag. Labourer	abt 1784				Willow Way	1851	1851											married to Charlotte
John Thomas	Humphries	farm labourer	abt 1827			Pool Bridge	Southend Lane	1851	1851			Willow Walk	1861	1861						Born Sydenham, married to Caroline Sarah, father of Caroline Emily Sarah
Catherine	Thorn	laundress	abt 1800				Willow Road	1851	1851											Widow, mother of Eliza, Catherine, John. Also mother of Mary Ann Wiggins (married to Charles Wiggins) and grandmother of Catherine Wiggins
Emily	Scudder		abt 1849		28	Scudders Row	Willow Way	1851	1881											"Daughter of Thomas and Rebecca

Census (1881) - ""Ellen"""
William	Wilson						Willow Way	1843	1843											T2792; T2793; T2794; T2795
George	Wood	shoemaker	abt 1824			Scudders Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Married to Ann, father of Caroline, Harriet, George
Ann	Wood					Scudders Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Married to George
Caroline	Wood					Scudders Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Daughter of George and Ann
Harriett	Wood					Scudders Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Daughter of George and Ann
George	Wood		abt 1850			Scudders Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Son of George and Ann
Lewis	Baker		abt 1847				Willow Way	1851	1851											son of Thomas and Amelia
Rebecca	Scudder		abt 1823		28	Scudders Row	Willow Way	1851	1894											Married to Thomas, widowed by 1891
Rosa	Scudder		abt 1846			Scudders Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Daughter of Thomas and Rebecca
Frederick	Scudder		abt 1848			Scudders Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Son of Thomas and Rebecca
Henry	Scott	carman (1851-1891), general shop; tobacconist; coal & coke merchant (1901-1911)	abt 1822	abt 1911	1		Willow Way	1849	1902											"Born Westbury, Wilts, married to Eliza (also born Westbury abt 1823), father of Elizabeth Mary (bap St Barts 1847), Mary Ann (born Syd abt 1849), Joseph Henry (bap St Barts 1850), Francis, Rosa, Charles Edward, Sarah E, Walter, Benjamin, Edwin, James, Frederick

Deptford (1853) - ""coal dealer""

Kelly (1911) - refers to executors of Henry Scott"
John	Clayton	bricklayer's labourer	abt 1838		39		Willow Walk	1881	1881											Married to Ann, father of Robert, Catherine, Anne, George, Albert
Henry	Charman	labourer	abt 1827			High Street	Dartmouth Road	1851	1851	1		Willow Way	1858	1862		8	Rowland Grove	1869	1869	Son of Edward and Elizabeth
Charles Edgar	Filmer	upholsterer					Willow Way	1902	1902											
John	Hicks				11	Mary Ann Cottage	Willow Way	1858	1869											Aspinall (1867) - has 2 separate entries for John Hicks, at 11 Willow Way and at Rose Cottage
Robert	Hicks	letter carrier	abt 1822		1		Willow Way	1851	1869											"married to Eliza

Deptford (1853) - ""cabinetmaker"""
Edmund W	Beatrup	gardener					Kelvin Grove	1862	1862		Billings Cottages, 9	Willow Way	1867	1869						"


Farmery (1869) - ""Edward W"""
Elizabeth	Hewlett		abt 1792			Scudders Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Married to William
William	Hewlett	brickmaker	abt 1791			Scudders Row	Willow Way	1851	1851											Married to Elizabeth, father of William, Mary A
James	Shorter	errand boy	abt 1838				Willow Way	1851	1851											Son of James and Catherine
Thomas	Shorter		abt 1841				Willow Way	1851	1851											Son of James and Catherine
John	Newell	ag. Labourer	abt 1791				Willow Way	1841	1851											married to Alice Ellen
Alice Ellen	Newell		abt 1805				Willow Way	1841	1851											married to John
Catherine	Shorter		abt 1805				Willow Way	1851	1851											Married to James
Richard	Maynard	corn dealer			27		Willow Way	1902	1902											
	Powell				3		Willow Way	1867	1869											
Abraham	Ashfold	bricklayer, plasterer, slater					Willow Way	1858	1858											
Hugh	Beadle					Joiners Arms	Willow Way	1848	1849											
John	Edwards						Willow Way	1858	1858											
Harriet	Eldridge						Willow Way	1858	1858											
Edward	Bird	horsebreaker			13		Willow Walk	1858	1869											
James	Luff	builder			75		Willow Way	1902	1902											
John	Inkpen	chimney sweep			57		Willow Way	1902	1902											
William	Harding	policeman	abt 1816		5	Billings Cottages, 5	Willow Walk	1851	1869											
Sarah	Scott	china warehouse, confectioner			1		Willow Way	1892	1925											"Kelly (1892) - ""R & S Scott"""
Joseph H	Scott	wheelwright	abt 1851		3		Willow Way	1891	1902											Born Sydenham, married to Julia (born Sydenham), father of Amy, Rosie, Horace, Mabel (all born in Marylebone 1880-1889)
Charles	Hughes	laundry					Willow Way	1858	1858											
Jonathan	Newall						Willow Way	1858	1858											
Richard G	Spearman	builder, decorator			34		Willow Way	1902	1902	14		Fransfield Grove	1892	1902						
George	Greenwood	bootmaker	abt 1826		24	Willow Walk, 8	Willow Walk	1858	1902											"""Bell Hill, Willow Walk"" 1864
Burt (1862) - ""18 Willow Way""
Aspinall (1867), Farmery (1869) - ""8 Willow walk""

married to Ann, father of Joseph (born Sydenham abt 1857), Walter, Annie, Alice"
Catherine	Thorne	laundry			3		Willow Way	1858	1867											"Burt (1862), Aspinall (1867) - ""Thorn"""
William	Elphick					Billings Cottages, 3	Willow Way	1858	1869											
James	Rouse	farrier			59		Willow Way	1892	1902											
John	Withyman	gardener			4		Willow Walk	1858	1869											"


Farmery (1869) - ""Witherman"""
Thomas	Tasker				4		Willow Way	1858	1862											
Thomas	Farnsworth	gardener			16		Willow Walk	1858	1869											
Richard	Glazier						Willow Way	1858	1858											
John	Grainger				14		Willow Walk	1858	1869											
Charles	Hutley						Willow Way	1858	1858											
James	Plumley	stonemason, beer shop					Willow Way	1855	1860	61	Masons Arms	Willow Way	1857	1867	High Street		Dartmouth Road	1858	1872	"Kelly (1860) - ""stonemason, Willow Way""
Burt (1862) - ""10 Willow Way""
1863 - beer retailer at Willow Way
1863-1872 - mason at Dartmouth Road, near Cheseman Street 

KM (6/3/1858) - Account of a violent assault by William Plumley on his brother and sister-in-law of the Mason's Arms, Sydenham

""Mrs. ANN SMYTHE, mother of the above ROBERT SMYTHE, obit Sept.18 1837, age 62 years, also EMILY ELIZABETH, daughter of Robert Smythe, obit 25 Jan 1858, age 28, also ELIZA SMYTHE, aunt of the above ROBERT SMYTHE, obit Sept. 10 1858, age 79, also/ MARY ANN, wife of ROBERT T.V. SMYTHE, obit Nov. 18 1863, age 60 /Tombstone by Plumley of Sydenham"""
William	Moore				17	Scudders Row	Willow Walk	1858	1869											
Sarah	Schooley				50		Willow Way	1858	1862											
William	Soar				20	Willow Walk, 10	Willow Way	1858	1869											"

Aspinall (1867); Farmery (1869) - ""10 Willow Walk"""
John	Alison						Willow Way	1858	1858											
Joseph	Greenham	beer shop [1]; dining rooms, coffee house [2]			2	Joiners Arms	Willow Way	1857	1862	178	Joiners Arms	Dartmouth Road	1864	1875						"Aspinall (1867) - ""Joiners Arms"""
Jane	Pearce				51		Willow Way	1858	1867											
William	Pearce				49		Willow Way	1858	1869											
Alfred James	Unwin	gardener					Willow Way	1858	1858											
James	Shorter						Willow Way	1858	1862											
Charles	Shaw	wheelwright			33	Willoughbys Cottages, 2	Willow Way	1855	1869											"Aspinall (1867) - ""2 Willoughbys Cottages"""
John	Sammons						Willow Way	1858	1858											
William	Wickenden	agricultural labourer	abt 1799		41		Willow Way	1841	1862											Married to Caroline, father of Emily, John, Mary, Margaret, Henry, Edward, Susannah, William
Robert W	Wilkinson	chimney sweep			46		Willow Way	1902	1902											
Rose	Scott	china warehouse, confectioner			1		Willow Way	1892	1939											"Kelly (1892) - ""R & S Scott""
Kelly (1937) - ""Scott, Rose (Miss)"""
Robert	Swatridge	beer retailer			29	Cottage of Content	Wells Road	1863	1864	61	Masons Arms	Willow Way	1869	1875						"""Swatbridge"" - White"
G	Pulland				61	Masons Arms	Willow Way	1874	1874											
Edward	Smith				8	Billings Cottages, 8	Willow Way	1858	1869											
James	Jones				5	Willow Walk, 5	Willow Way	1858	1869											
Thomas	Lancaster	hairdresser					Willow Way	1858	1858											
John	Keen						Willow Way	1858	1858											
John	Kirby				61	Masons Arms	Willow Way	1889	1891											
James	Ridlington	beer retailer			61	Masons Arms	Willow Way	1891	1891	21		Willow Walk	1892	1892		23	Willow Walk	1892	1892	"

? number change"
William Graves	Mann				61	Masons Arms	Willow Way	1894	1896											
H	Simmons				61	Masons Arms	Willow Way	1905	1909											Masons Arms ceased trading 1909
William	Willson						Willow Way	1858	1858											
John	Ford					Willoughbys Cottages, 4	Willow Way	1858	1869											
William Albert	Fenner	carpenter			6		Willow Walk	1858	1869											
Martin	Ranger						Willow Way	1858	1858											
Thomas	Fryar	coachman; bath chairman; bath chair proprietor; livery stables	abt 1824			Willow Walk, 15	Willow Way	1861	1867	1		Taylors Lane	1869	1871		3	Taylors Lane	1881	1881	"Married to Elizabeth, father of Emily Christian (born Sydenham abt 1856), George John, Rose Elizabeth, Henry Thomas, Anne Louisa, Charles, Frederick James, Albert, Arthur, William
Married to Susan by 1891


Also spelt ""Fryer""

East side of Halifax St"
Thomas	Saddler	gardener			19		Willow Way	1862	1864											
John	Leech	beer retailer					Willow Way	1855	1855											
William	Hibbert	gardener			7		Willow Walk	1858	1869											"""Bell Hill, Willow Walk"""
James	Lodge	coal dealer			26		Willow Way	1862	1864											"""Bell Hill, Willow Walk"""
James	Philbrook	beer retailer			30		Willow Way	1862	1864											"""Bell Hill, Willow Walk"""
John	Shorter						Willow Way	1864	1867											
William	Clifford					Curtiss Cottages, 3	Willow Way	1864	1869											
William	West					Curtis Cottages, 2	Willow Way	1864	1869											
Samuel Jesse	Timson	beer retailer			21	Three Brewers	Willow Way	1867	1875											"Aspinall (1867) - ""J Timson"""
	Salmon				9		Willow Way	1862	1862											
Richard	Hancock	bricklayer			12		Willow Way	1862	1862											
Edward	Webb	beer house			28	Lads of the Village	Willow Way	1861	1862											KM (14/6/1862) - Report that George [sic] Webb, landlord of Lads of the Village, attempted suicide
John	Jones				29		Willow Way	1862	1862											
Alfred	Manser				31		Willow Way	1862	1862											
Joseph	Salter				32	Willoughbys Cottages, 1	Willow Way	1862	1867											
James	Smith				4		Willow Way	1862	1867											"Burt (1862) - ""34 Willow road"""
Thomas	Brown	gardener			35		Willow Way	1862	1862											
George	Rutland					Mason's Arms	Willow Way	1875	1875											Willow Walk
William	Shackles				1		Willow Way	1869	1869											
James	Clark				5		Willow Way	1869	1869											
William	Oliver					Willoughbys Cottages, 1	Willow Way	1869	1869											
	Early	laundress			52		Willow Way	1862	1862											
George	Rush					Billings Cottages, 1	Willow Way	1869	1869											
John	Kaye					Curtiss Cottages, 1	Willow Way	1864	1869											"Farmery (1869) - ""Curtis"""
John	Harrison				12		Willow Walk	1862	1869											
	Bird						Willow Way	1864	1864											
J	Wickenden				6		Willow Way	1869	1869											
Frederick	Bull				2		Willow Walk	1867	1869											
	Bannion					Billings Cottages, 6	Willow Way	1867	1867											
	Tasker					Billings Cottages, 4	Willow Way	1867	1867											
George	Gadd					Billings Cottages, 2	Willow Way	1867	1869											
Richard	Gregory					Rose Cottage	Willow Way	1867	1869											
	Emery					Lyons Warehouse	Willow Way	1867	1869											
John	Small				43		Willow Way	1867	1867	8		Willow Walk	1869	1869						
Thomas	Elliott				41		Willow Way	1867	1867											
Henry	Ashman				36		Willow Way	1867	1867											
Edgar	Semmens	beer retailer			21	Three Brewers	Willow Way	1888	1888	61	Masons Arms	Willow Walk	1888	1888						"

Not sure what has happened here"
Daniel	Bulpitt	beer retailer			21	Three Brewers	Willow Way	1888	1889											
Edmund	Evermy	publican					Willow Way	1853	1855	133	Royal Oak	Kirkdale	1857	1872						"sometimes spelt ""Evemy"""
Charles	James	plasterer			7		Willow Way	1862	1862											
T Cleverly	Long	beer retailer			21	Three Brewers	Willow Way	1893	1894											
John	William	beer retailer			21	Three Brewers	Willow Way	1894	1895											
	Thorn					Willow Walk, 3	Willow Way	1869	1869											
William	Soar					Willow Walk, 10	Willow Way	1869	1869											
William	Whiting				46		Willow Way	1862	1862											
F W	Kerr	beer retailer			21	Three Brewers	Willow Way	1896	1896											
	Philbrook				44		Willow Way	1862	1862											
William	Challis	shoemaker			47		Willow Way	1862	1862											
Enoch	Perryman				37		Willow Way	1862	1867	2		Willow Way	1869	1869						
Thomas	Scudder				10		Willow Way	1869	1869											
John	Hook						Willow Way	1869	1869											
George	Bowles						Willow Way	1867	1869											"


Aspinall (1867) - ""Bowle"""
	Pearce						Willow Way	1869	1869											
Thomas	Chapman	riding establishment					Willow Way	1869	1869											
Thomas	Banyard					Billings Cottages, 6	Willow Way	1869	1869											
William	Mathews					Willoughbys Cottages, 3	Willow Way	1867	1869											
William	Alphink				3		Willow Way	1862	1862											
	Cook					Scudders Row, 10	Willow Way	1867	1867											
J	Verey					Scudders Row, 11	Willow Way	1867	1867											
John	Gimber					Scudders Row, 12	Willow Way	1867	1869											
Thomas	Sadler				9		Willow Walk	1867	1869											
Alfred	Hall					Willow Walk, 15	Willow Way	1869	1869											
David	Allard	shoemaker			39		Willow Way	1858	1867	4		Willow Walk	1869	1869						"Clark (1858) - ""Alard"""
James	Clarke				40		Willow Way	1862	1867											"Aspinall (1867) - ""Clark"""
William	Philbrook				42		Willow Way	1862	1862											
Robert	Jones				43		Willow Way	1862	1862											
George Henry Barklay	Perkins	beer retailer			21	Three Brewers	Willow Way	1889	1890											
Alfred	Thomsett	beer retailer			21	Three Brewers	Willow Way	1890	1891											
Edwin	Casson	beer retailer			21	Three Brewers	Willow Way	1891	1892											"Kelly (1892) - 61 Willow Way""; ""Cassam"""
James	Collins	beer retailer			21	Three Brewers	Willow Way	1892	1893											
George	Giles					Billings Cottages, 4	Willow Way	1869	1869											
	Jackson					Willow Walk, 17	Willow Way	1869	1869											
	Skipps					Scudders Row	Willow Way	1869	1869											
Alfred	Terry	flour miller	abt 1845		6		Willow Way	1881	1881											Son of Thomas, married to Emily, father of Jane
Samuel	Howe	gardener			19		Willow Walk	1892	1892											
Ellen	Murphy	confectioner			79		Willow Walk	1892	1902											
William	Jackson	bootmaker			81		Willow Walk	1892	1902											
Thomas	Taplin				47		Willow Walk	1915	1915											
Alfred John	Pearson	grainer			10		Willow Walk	1892	1892											
Joseph	Keen	marine stores			45		Willow Walk	1892	1892											
James	Malpress	chimney sweep			57		Willow Walk	1892	1892											
	Callow Dairy Farmers Co				77		Willow Walk	1892	1892											
George	Gould	builder			75		Willow Walk	1892	1892											
Margaret	Cheesman	upholsterer	abt 1822		35		Mount Ash Road	1881	1881	75		Willow Walk	1891	1891						Born Lenham (Sydenham 1891), widowed, mother of Catherine Banham, also widowed
Thomas	Perks	gardener	abt 1843		22		Willow Way	1881	1881											Married to Mary, father of Thomas, James, Augusta (born Syd abt 1879)
	Blackhouse & Britton	printer			51		Willow Way	1969	1969											
James	Berryman		abt 1874		22		Russell Street	1881	1881	43		Willow Walk	1911	1937						Son of James
Charles	Shaw	wheelwright (1861-1881); coachbuilder (1891-1901)	abt 1829			Willoughbys Cottages	Willow Walk	1855	1871		Wigton Villas, 1	Wells Road	1880	1881		31	Wells Road	1888	1902	"Born Reigate, married to Elizabeth, father of Jane (b Syd abt 1854), Esther, James (b Syd abt 1857), Mary A (b Syd abt 1862, m William Cooper), Ephraim

Kelly (1911), Kelly (1912): ""Shaw Bros., wheelwrights"""
Henry B	Scott				3		Willow Walk	1911	1939											
Walter	Scott				9		Willow Walk	1911	1912											
Sampson	Wren	carpenter	abt 1838				Willow Way	1861	1861											"Married to Elizabeth, father of Martin (born Syd abt 1860)

Census (1871) - living in Penge"
Frederick	Cheeseman	labourer	abt 1831				Willow Walk		1861											Born Dorset, married to Emma
	Scott				11		Willow Walk	1925	1925											
Frederick Augustus	Scott				1		Willow Walk	1937	1939											
	Scott				11		Willow Walk	1937	1937											

FName	LName	Occupation	Born	Died	No 1	Name 1	Street 1	From 1	To 1	No 2	Name 2	Street 2	From 2	To 2	Name 3	No 3	Street 3	From 3	To 3	Name 4	No 4	Street 4	From 4	To 4	Name 5	No 5	Street 5	From 5	To 5	Name 6	No 6	Street 6	From 6	To 6	Notes
Jonah	Redward	gardener; furniture dealer	abt 1833			Hanover Terrace, 8	Wells Park Road	1864	1869			Wells Park Road	1871	1875	Poplar Cottage		Wells Park Road	1881	1881		67	Willow Way	1892	1894	High Street, 21		Kirkdale	1902	1902						"Born Odcombe, Somerset, married to Catherine
Simpson (1864) - ""Wells Terrace""
Hanover Terrace is near Cottage of Content, in 1871 on other side of road, near Mill Lane"

Thomas	Fryar	coachman; bath chairman; bath chair proprietor; livery stables	abt 1824			Willow Walk, 15	Willow Way	1861	1867	1		Taylors Lane	1869	1871		3	Taylors Lane	1881	1881	Hanover Street, 12		Halifax Street	1891	1891	Hanover Street, 4		Halifax Street	1892	1892	Hanover Street, 10		Halifax Street	1894	1894	"Married to Elizabeth, father of Emily Christian (born Sydenham abt 1856), George John, Rose Elizabeth, Henry Thomas, Anne Louisa, Charles, Frederick James, Albert, Arthur, William
Married to Susan by 1891
Also spelt ""Fryer""
East side of Halifax St"

[Michael Viner]

Hello there-re.the photo of 36-52 Willow Way,which was taken on 27th November 1952 .These were the last old houses in Willow Way to be demolished-they survived until 1977(I knew a family who lived in one of them) whereas all the other old Victorian cottages-some of them timbered and quite picturesque- were demolished in the late 50's and early 60's as part of the London County Council's 'Slum Clearance' of Upper Sydenham.The building right at the end in the distance still survives-137 Kirkdale,corner of Willow Way opposite Tescos. In the photo of the quaint,leaning, half-timbered cottage,which was just around the corner from the houses in the 1st photo,the building in the distance is Denham Court,the 1930's block of flats(always half-hidden by shrubbery) up by the bus stop in Kirkdale near the corner of Halifax Street..

In the photo of the two great old cottages of Willow Close,also taken 27th Nov.52',what can be seen in the background is 'Moffats Stores' a long gone shop in Dartmouth Rd. and next to it on the right,just being built.the building that is now 'Century Motors' car showrooms in Dartmouth Rd.opposite the Bricklayers Arms pub.

Hope this is of some help.Kind Regards,Michael

[Conker]

I cannot add much of help but I knew that area as one of our street urchin playgrounds.
all the buildings in the middle had gone,just derelict ground in the 50's and 60's, but the Express Dairy had its depot in the yard at the corner,some kind of caterer now I think.
I can remember the last of those weatherboard houses, having survived two wars to have the LCC brand them as "slums" seems a bit insulting.
It seemed like a little bit of the country side back then because of those houses, there seem to have been a lot of weatherboard houses around that triangle. worthy of study on their own?

I have the impression there was more bomb damage than stated though.
the long grey building with nursery marked was a row of lock up garages, the large building before those is where they built the section house.
uphill from the bricklayers was a esso garage which must have been built on a bomb clearance site replacing the buildings here.
uphill from there just before the H the buildings strated again with the house with the cross hatching on the side, that was a veterinary practitioner, a funny bloke; opposite that was a chrome plate works, lots of little shops up to the corner, a sweet shop, and Catherels the barber, where short back and sides was forced upon me every 3 weeks in a grubby cubby hole of a shop.

one of the bigger buildings fronting Kirkdale,possibly one of the ones stretching far back was a butcher shop with its own slaughterhouse at the rear, maybe keeping beasts on the land at the back ?

Miles I think was his name, he had a large iron bulls head above his shop.
I'd love to see a bigger area of that map.

[Frowzy]

Hi again and thank you to Falkor, Michael and Conker for some excellent, invaluable descriptions of the area during the post war era.

RAF aerial photography, which i've managed to get my hands on, has further reinforced your suggestions that the white cottages were still in tact post war and, therefore, they were not demolished due to bombing raids. I can also confirm that the area surrounding the Bricklayer's Arms Pub to the northeast was leveled, most probably by a parachute mine due to its large radius of destruction. However, the Bricklayer's Arms Pub was the only building to remain standing (talk about going to the pub and letting it all blow over!).

Thank you very much for providing a better understanding of the local area and the purpose of numerous buildings during this period. It has most definitely proved extremely useful in my project.

Regarding the central area that Conker described as derelict ground during the 50's and 60's but houses an Express Dairy Depot, does anyone have any further information on this? This is the area in the centre of the building cluster bounded by Dartmouth Road, Willow Way and Kirkdale Road. Open areas like this are good signs of possible bomb damage from WWII and I would like to investigate whether this area sustained any damage or whether it was, in fact, just used as an open ground area.

As usual, any advice or suggestions on this investigation would be greatly appreciated and I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards,

Matt

[Conker]

the Express dairy yard was on the right hand side going to wards the Dartmouth arms,right on the corner; difficult to place it now but I am sure looking at street view its now occupied by hallmark.

I can't comment on the parachute mine but do not underestimate the effects of blast from the V2 on Panmure, the V1's nearby; significant blast damage would occur over a 1/4 mile radius, that mean cracked walls broken windows, roof damage falling debris.
another V2 in Radlet ave, and I think more V1s neaby; all within 1/4 mile.

Bomb Blast was a a real killer, plenty of stories of dead families around a table for instance all dead from blast, all
unmarked.

Can you post the RAF aerial view,? it might be a memory jogger

almost 50 V1 and V2 landed in or around se26 and forest hill, plenty of scope for some flying roof tiles.
and thats with out the blitz damage.
a bit tatty around Kirkdale in the 1950s but I liked it better then than it is now, I'm afraid.

[Frowzy]

After reading my last post and getting muddled up about the location of the Express Dairy Depot, I have composed two quick maps post WWII which indicate the area which I wish to investigate further. Any information on what this area was used for, or any information on what seems to be a small cluster of houses before they were demolished, would be greatly appreciated!

Post War with House



Post War after Houses demolished



As said, any information on this central area will prove invaluable in my project.

Kind Regards,

Matt

[Conker]

Afraid I cannot give any more info on that area as I only remember it as waste ground.

Interesting maps though, especially where little industries are identified.

The first map must date from 1950, as the white space at the corner of Kelvin/Kirkdale was a where a prefab school room was built just after, the ruins marked there must be from the Panmure V2.

I found a reference to the parachute mine you mentioned, I remember that area to the side of Cheseman street as being wasteland covered in horseradish, with a set of rough and ready stables, next to the girls school building before it was all extended.

an obscure subject for research, how did you come to it?

[Michael Viner]

Dear Conker,Thanks for sharing your great memories of Willow Way-yes, that waste ground/empty land was still there when I was a boy in the late 60's/ early 1970's-it was a favourite play area for my late twin brother David and I-we used to love to play 'war' there- wearing our soldier dressing- up outfits and all- for hours sometimes,until it was dark,worrying my poor Mum,bless her,Remember her coming over there to fetch us once and drag us home! We always assumed it was a bombsite,it certainly looked like one.There were still one or two bombsites left in Sydenham in the 70's. Matt/Frowzy-the area I refer to is now where 'Selkent Fastenings' factory/office is now,stretching back to what became the council depot later in the 70's.The Express Dairy was on the eastern side-marked 'Milk Depot' on your map-where the industrial storage units are now with the big gate across.Oh,yes,Conker, the Vets just past the garage! You went in the side entrance there to that little cottage- the first vets I ever went to, when I was a little boy,going with Mum and our first dog,Susie.
Matt, I have some photos and a sketch of Willow Way.to share-I'll put them up soon hopefully. Kind Regards,Michael

[Michael Viner]

Hello there-here is a sketch from 1930 (from the Sydenham, Forest Hill & Penge Gazette 10th Oct.1930) of the missing pair of charming timbered cottages 32 & 34 Willow Way, on the left It is the only known image of it You'll recognise the other pair on the right from the photo you put up of it.It looked in better condition pre-war! If,as you say, No's 32&34 here were not bombed,possibly the reason they were demolished before the 50's so- called 'Slum Clearance' of Willow Way(the L.C.C used the catch-all term 'slum' for any area that was old and in the way of their schemes,whether they were actually slums or not) is that most of the Willow Way houses were built around the 1820's/ 1830's and were probably on 99 year leases(as were a lot of 19th century properties) which expired in the 1930's.Perhaps most of the leases were renewed but not that one;someone bought it cheap as it only had a couple of years left,demolished it with a view to building a new house,then war came and the plans all fell by the way,or perhaps the chap died in the war.That's a possible scenario. Michael


Willow-Way-01 by Michael Viner, on Flickr