Wow a lot of suggestions and information on this thread..
Has anyone thought about contacting any of these businesses directly (such as the sweet shop in ED) and seeing if they are interest in expanding to Sydenham?
We have soo many empty shops such as Apollo videos, the old chemist and HSBC to name only a couple. Perhaps some businesses haven't ever considered Sydenham as an option.
I would def. be interested in getting involved.
WHAT SHOPS WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IN THE HIGH STREET
Oh dear having spent 6 hours travelling back from Mid-Wales i thought I would check out the latest on this rather evocative and apparently provocative issue. can't understand why there is so much aggression when surely we are all aiming for a better and happier community. Instead of being competitive with each other lets try and agree on what we all want here in lovely SE26. PS how about an olive bar, anti-pasti type place !!! who likes white anchovies etc ??? and no I am not being a snob ! But hey what about the jazz night in that Lion pub !
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victoria plum
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 6 Oct 2006 21:28
- Location: selondon
Our high street is going to change greatly in the next few years. City Slacker has listed the many demographic changes which are already altering our locality. If you add a £1 billion new train line to open before the middle of 2010 and £2m about to be spent on improving Sydenham Road (work to start next year) then this change is going to quicken rather than slow. Poppy, City Slacker and others are correct in saying that the high street simply does not reflect many (most?) of the inhabitants who live here - and that must and will change.
Those posters who are concerned about our area becoming "like Lordship Lane" also need to take a hard look at local demographics. Sydenham isn't like the Lordship Lane area or like Crystal Palace in terms of social make-up. Lordship Lane and environs is almost all owner-occupied property with limited social housing - which is why the area was able to change "overnight". Sydenham has significant social housing, large area of Housing Association mixed in with large areas of owner occupation. (before the "class conscious" jump down my throat I am not saying that everyone who lives in social housing is poor and all owner occupiers are rich - but it is a very strong indication of income and social background).
With a more mixed population it will be virtually impossible for Sydenham Road to become "like Dulwich". Nor would this be healthy or desirable. We all want greater choice in our high street. But this will not result in every pound shop or "greasy spoon" in our high street closing - just a more "mixed" environment in which all local people can shop.
Those who argue that new businesses such as the Dolphin or BMC are unwelcome here need to face social and economic change on our high street - it's coming, it's welcomed by the vast majority of Sydenham and the sooner it gets here the better. We have two new high-quality businesses in our high street - let's hope we have 20 or 30 more in the next few years.
Those posters who are concerned about our area becoming "like Lordship Lane" also need to take a hard look at local demographics. Sydenham isn't like the Lordship Lane area or like Crystal Palace in terms of social make-up. Lordship Lane and environs is almost all owner-occupied property with limited social housing - which is why the area was able to change "overnight". Sydenham has significant social housing, large area of Housing Association mixed in with large areas of owner occupation. (before the "class conscious" jump down my throat I am not saying that everyone who lives in social housing is poor and all owner occupiers are rich - but it is a very strong indication of income and social background).
With a more mixed population it will be virtually impossible for Sydenham Road to become "like Dulwich". Nor would this be healthy or desirable. We all want greater choice in our high street. But this will not result in every pound shop or "greasy spoon" in our high street closing - just a more "mixed" environment in which all local people can shop.
Those who argue that new businesses such as the Dolphin or BMC are unwelcome here need to face social and economic change on our high street - it's coming, it's welcomed by the vast majority of Sydenham and the sooner it gets here the better. We have two new high-quality businesses in our high street - let's hope we have 20 or 30 more in the next few years.
sydenham high street
Nasaroc, maybe you are more knowledeable this than me, but as far as I am aware East Dulwich/Dulwich has large amounts of social housing. I don't know the names of the estates but there is a very large one next to the Sainsburys on Dog Kennel Hill, that large 'ship one' (you can see from Horniman gardens) Barry Road end, and small blocks of flats interspersed within some streets off LL. LL area is also right next to Peckham and Nunhead which are also very econmically mixed areas. Also I don't know Crysal Palace that well, but the area right next to the actual train station looks to me very much like a large council estate.
Lordship Lane is quite different in social composition to Sydenham. According to the office for national statistics there are 965 household in the ward surrounding Lordship Lane living in homes under "social ownership"; in Sydenham West it's 2,093 - and the total number of households in both wards is almost exactly the same.
Don't believe the statistics? Look at the evidence of your own eyes. Take a walk along Lordship Lane. Head south and walk down any road east or west and take a look - owner-occupied as far as you can see. Yes, there is a large social housing estate on Red Post Hill but that's over a mile away from the core shopping area.
Now take a walk down Sydenham Road. Starting at Cobb's Corner you have a significant number of streets behind The Greyhound which are housing association run; cross over the railway bridge and walk ten metres down Venner Lane - social housing estate; cross the road and walk 200 metres down Silverdale - social housing estate; look behind the Dolphin - Home Park estate.
And this is just in or close to the core shopping area. Go further afield and both Upper and lower Sydenham have very significant areas of social housing.
I could go on but hopefully the point has been made - we live in an area which is infinitely more mixed socially than Lordship Lane.
The same goes for Crystal Palace.
Sorry to labour this - but anyone wishing to change Sydenham needs to have a clear idea about SE26. Simply saying that Sydenham is the same as Lordship Lane is daft.
Don't believe the statistics? Look at the evidence of your own eyes. Take a walk along Lordship Lane. Head south and walk down any road east or west and take a look - owner-occupied as far as you can see. Yes, there is a large social housing estate on Red Post Hill but that's over a mile away from the core shopping area.
Now take a walk down Sydenham Road. Starting at Cobb's Corner you have a significant number of streets behind The Greyhound which are housing association run; cross over the railway bridge and walk ten metres down Venner Lane - social housing estate; cross the road and walk 200 metres down Silverdale - social housing estate; look behind the Dolphin - Home Park estate.
And this is just in or close to the core shopping area. Go further afield and both Upper and lower Sydenham have very significant areas of social housing.
I could go on but hopefully the point has been made - we live in an area which is infinitely more mixed socially than Lordship Lane.
The same goes for Crystal Palace.
Sorry to labour this - but anyone wishing to change Sydenham needs to have a clear idea about SE26. Simply saying that Sydenham is the same as Lordship Lane is daft.
Shops on the high street
narasoc. That is interesting. When are your stats from? 1100 more does not sound that much more to me really. And anyway, LL draws in a lot of people from further afield not just the immediate area - Peckham, Nunhead, Forest Hill and people from here. So, so could Sydenham. Also those owner occupied dwellings might be filled with lots of students because of Camberwell College or Art (that's why I've known it for so long, my friend went there and rented in ED, and many are probably still rented out to students). I think there are also lots rentals in the area generally and many houses are converted into flats. And in no way are all the houses really well kept. So although there has been an influx of very wealthy people from south west London in the last eight or so years, there are still lots of people who would have bought their homes ages ago and probably aren't loaded. Also, going back to Sydenham, the estate at Bell Green, although substantial, is a long way away from the core shopping area here too. There are lots dotted around the Dulwich area. They just might not be as obvious as here - they are not all on main roads. We also have leafy New Beckenham area on our doorstep and Dulwich at the top of upper Sydenham. Did you know East Dulwich years ago? It was completely different to the way it is now. Really, unless you saw it then you couldn't believe the transformation.
Not that I disagree with you nasaroc, but don't most areas have lots of council estates? Crystal palace has lots right in the centre of the triangle (someone was murdered right in front of some of them recently at the top of Gypsy hill).
Forest Hill has lots of council properties. Along the south circular a lot of those big old victorian properties were owned by the council.
Brockley has a huge amount of council properties.
So does Greenwich. Right next to the sad remains of the Cutty Sark there is a large council estate which even now is still full of about 30% council tenants. All along the Thames towards North Greenwich are more council estates.
Around the back of Blackheath station is a large council estate.
Sydenham has a huge amount of beautiful roads, a lot of property that hasn't been broken up into flats and therefore seems to be attracting a lot of families from other areas because of the space. Just go into the BMC on a Saturday morning to see how many families are in there to see how local demographics are changing. The housing market went ballistic in Sydenham this year from January onwards. Houses that sold for under £250,000 in December last year are now £300,000-£350,000 in the same road!
Brockley within a very short space of time now has a great independent coffee shop and TWO delis. Further up towards Crofton Park they have more quality café's and the excellent Jam Circus and Lawrence's wine bar, not to mention Babur, one of the best indian restaurants in London. Despite this greasy spoons still exist there and they still look a bit shabby and rough around the edges. Infact they look the same as greasy spoons everywhere.
East Dulwich has a bit of the snob factor as it's has the word DULWICH in the name. It will take longer for Sydenham to get anywhere near East Dulwich in the 'gentrification' stakes, if it EVER does as the mere word Sydenham sadly isn't yet a brand the masses want to move to unless like me and a few enlightened other people you have discovered it's charms.
Point is, things will change as different people move in.
I am not frightened of so called 'gentrification', although I think that is the wrong word. I'd call it prosperity. Did people complain when they moved the Crystal palace to the area 'because things might change'?
Wouldn't it be nice for the high street to build on it's villagy atmosphere and look like it's proud of itself?
Like it used to.
Currently a lot of the shops don't look like the belong in the buildings they inhabit. Shops don't HAVE to look shabby, even if they sell cheap products.
Forest Hill has lots of council properties. Along the south circular a lot of those big old victorian properties were owned by the council.
Brockley has a huge amount of council properties.
So does Greenwich. Right next to the sad remains of the Cutty Sark there is a large council estate which even now is still full of about 30% council tenants. All along the Thames towards North Greenwich are more council estates.
Around the back of Blackheath station is a large council estate.
Sydenham has a huge amount of beautiful roads, a lot of property that hasn't been broken up into flats and therefore seems to be attracting a lot of families from other areas because of the space. Just go into the BMC on a Saturday morning to see how many families are in there to see how local demographics are changing. The housing market went ballistic in Sydenham this year from January onwards. Houses that sold for under £250,000 in December last year are now £300,000-£350,000 in the same road!
Brockley within a very short space of time now has a great independent coffee shop and TWO delis. Further up towards Crofton Park they have more quality café's and the excellent Jam Circus and Lawrence's wine bar, not to mention Babur, one of the best indian restaurants in London. Despite this greasy spoons still exist there and they still look a bit shabby and rough around the edges. Infact they look the same as greasy spoons everywhere.
East Dulwich has a bit of the snob factor as it's has the word DULWICH in the name. It will take longer for Sydenham to get anywhere near East Dulwich in the 'gentrification' stakes, if it EVER does as the mere word Sydenham sadly isn't yet a brand the masses want to move to unless like me and a few enlightened other people you have discovered it's charms.
Point is, things will change as different people move in.
I am not frightened of so called 'gentrification', although I think that is the wrong word. I'd call it prosperity. Did people complain when they moved the Crystal palace to the area 'because things might change'?
Wouldn't it be nice for the high street to build on it's villagy atmosphere and look like it's proud of itself?
Like it used to.
Currently a lot of the shops don't look like the belong in the buildings they inhabit. Shops don't HAVE to look shabby, even if they sell cheap products.
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castiron73
- Posts: 132
- Joined: 24 Oct 2006 10:05
- Location: Sydenham Thorpes
Shops I am thankful for:
The Dolphin is a godsend but could you get rid of the parking spaces at the front please? A nice wall or hedge would do wonders for that stretch of pavement.
SG Smith to always park all cars and vans in ascending height order from front (near Dolphin) to back to make it look neater
Slatters could offer more patisserie items and a wider selection of fancy breads. I think it should also look less chick-lit pink and add a nice cafe to bookend the high street. All those cakes could go in the windows to make space. Wouldn’t cost much. The bakery in Perry Rise is tiny and has done nothing fancy with its decor but has a really nice dairy feel about it.
Chef's Delight - much nicer since the smoking ban and the staff are great. Almost like a good diner but not quite there as it’s a bit 80s rather than 50s. I’d hate it to be ‘modernised’ though. More retro please
The fruit and veg shop is fantastic but it doesn’t sell itself well. I wish it was bigger and had room for nicer displays. More organic would be good. It could offer weekly deliveries of boxes in the neighbourhood or for commuters to pick up.
Somerfield is better lately but it still looks dated. Open up the front of the shop like modern metro stores
House of Curtains has good products but its window display lets it down
The amusement arcade - knock it down or make it attractive to teenagers not gamblers with latest games and an internet café
The Golden Lion has great potential but smells of Febreeze. The sticky carpet should go first, followed by the bathtubs in the garden. Proper pub food - pies, chicken in a basket, ham or cheese rolls would do fine.
All of the pound shops to be consolidated into one. I don’t mind prices increasing to £2 to fund it
New shops I want:
A quality butcher who is knowledgable and offers an interesting selection. The one in ED only moved there from NW London three years ago and immediately people were queuing round the corner to get in. The place down the road never seems open and it’s a bit far to pop there and check.
A fishmonger and fish restaurant combination. Needn't be posh. Somewhere you have to take your own drink or even condiments would be fine.
Somewhere other than Chef's Delight to take small children for tea. BMC only had cakes on offer at teatime (this may have changed). The Dolphin doesn't serve food until 6.30. Pizza Express/Belgo/Wagamama-style but more individual would be ideal.
A DVD shop. Bittorrent is too slow and I like to impulse-rent, not send away to a postal club.
I want the sorting office to become a small cinema/theatre thanks to a mystery benefactor
And the former church in Queensthorpe Road to become a modern restaurant
I want to knock down the Naborhood Centre, the Post Office, the Two Halfs, the Hypermarket and the accountants above and put a small town square in there, with room for a market, a bandstand for all the local musicians and a few trees and benches
- The banks (with free cash machines)
Boots, the pharmacy and Superdrug
The bookshop
The barbers & OTT (good with kids)
The ink shop
The stationers
The newsagents for travelcards and any magazine you ever wanted
Cinderella office services
Snappy Snaps
The Turkish shop opposite Somerfield that unlike Somerfield has herbs and canellini beans
Londis (but only late on a Sunday night after a weekend away)
The (remarkably few) charity shops that take unwanted items
Ghurkas
Sydenham DIY
Paulros
BMC (for making the place look tidy)
The paint shop by the library
The Dolphin is a godsend but could you get rid of the parking spaces at the front please? A nice wall or hedge would do wonders for that stretch of pavement.
SG Smith to always park all cars and vans in ascending height order from front (near Dolphin) to back to make it look neater
Slatters could offer more patisserie items and a wider selection of fancy breads. I think it should also look less chick-lit pink and add a nice cafe to bookend the high street. All those cakes could go in the windows to make space. Wouldn’t cost much. The bakery in Perry Rise is tiny and has done nothing fancy with its decor but has a really nice dairy feel about it.
Chef's Delight - much nicer since the smoking ban and the staff are great. Almost like a good diner but not quite there as it’s a bit 80s rather than 50s. I’d hate it to be ‘modernised’ though. More retro please
The fruit and veg shop is fantastic but it doesn’t sell itself well. I wish it was bigger and had room for nicer displays. More organic would be good. It could offer weekly deliveries of boxes in the neighbourhood or for commuters to pick up.
Somerfield is better lately but it still looks dated. Open up the front of the shop like modern metro stores
House of Curtains has good products but its window display lets it down
The amusement arcade - knock it down or make it attractive to teenagers not gamblers with latest games and an internet café
The Golden Lion has great potential but smells of Febreeze. The sticky carpet should go first, followed by the bathtubs in the garden. Proper pub food - pies, chicken in a basket, ham or cheese rolls would do fine.
All of the pound shops to be consolidated into one. I don’t mind prices increasing to £2 to fund it
New shops I want:
A quality butcher who is knowledgable and offers an interesting selection. The one in ED only moved there from NW London three years ago and immediately people were queuing round the corner to get in. The place down the road never seems open and it’s a bit far to pop there and check.
A fishmonger and fish restaurant combination. Needn't be posh. Somewhere you have to take your own drink or even condiments would be fine.
Somewhere other than Chef's Delight to take small children for tea. BMC only had cakes on offer at teatime (this may have changed). The Dolphin doesn't serve food until 6.30. Pizza Express/Belgo/Wagamama-style but more individual would be ideal.
A DVD shop. Bittorrent is too slow and I like to impulse-rent, not send away to a postal club.
I want the sorting office to become a small cinema/theatre thanks to a mystery benefactor
And the former church in Queensthorpe Road to become a modern restaurant
I want to knock down the Naborhood Centre, the Post Office, the Two Halfs, the Hypermarket and the accountants above and put a small town square in there, with room for a market, a bandstand for all the local musicians and a few trees and benches
castiron73, you don't ask for much 
but seriously, its a very interesting post.
Love the fact that you praise the good and then set out your wish list.
I also LOVE the idea of the town square - hats off to you for having that idea. It would give a great focal point to the street.
Of course there are loads of reasons to say it is not possible, am sure you are awaiting the deluge. But sometimes it's good to think 'why not' when it comes to planning the future.
and please please post a photo if you ever get Smiths to line up their vans in height order - if you can do that, you can do anything
but seriously, its a very interesting post.
Love the fact that you praise the good and then set out your wish list.
I also LOVE the idea of the town square - hats off to you for having that idea. It would give a great focal point to the street.
Of course there are loads of reasons to say it is not possible, am sure you are awaiting the deluge. But sometimes it's good to think 'why not' when it comes to planning the future.
and please please post a photo if you ever get Smiths to line up their vans in height order - if you can do that, you can do anything
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City_Slacker
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 24 Nov 2007 11:39
- Location: Sydenham
This thread seems to have two main, well, threads to it. First, what kind of High Street people want (recognising the good shops already there - can I put in another plug for Smart Chaps which my kids love, possibly because of the free lollipops?) and suggesting improvements (some great suggestions - while we're at it can have a classic car place in the unused showroom where the hand car wash place is?). Second, can these improvements happen? I think whether you rely on official statistics or the evidence of your own eyes looking around and at the posts here, there are reasons to believe there are enough people locally to support the kinds of businesses people are calling for on this thread. I would go further and suggest there is probably a pent up demand for them and that a quality butcher, say, would absolutely thrive.
On a practical note, as with everything, its always going to be easier to retain existing good business on the High Street than attract new ones. Some of the posts on this thread and others have made me want to try out a couple of places I might probably not have considered before. I can't be the only one and hopefully others will do the same. If enough people make a conscious effort to check out the places other posters have given the thumbs up to, it could have a big impact on keeping the good things we have on the High Street and persuading new businesses to invest.
On a practical note, as with everything, its always going to be easier to retain existing good business on the High Street than attract new ones. Some of the posts on this thread and others have made me want to try out a couple of places I might probably not have considered before. I can't be the only one and hopefully others will do the same. If enough people make a conscious effort to check out the places other posters have given the thumbs up to, it could have a big impact on keeping the good things we have on the High Street and persuading new businesses to invest.
Hello Poppy you wouldn't happen to be on Queensthorpe Rd? Sydenham is great- there are loads of interesting people living around here- I'm excited about the Blue Mountain cafe- bit on the pricy side so I can't go there too often though. And the Dolphin is great. My only gripe is that I do wish they'd give us a more hygenic way of serving salt and pepper. Dip your fingers into it and pass it on...? Hmmm peanut bowl fears are creeping in. Love chefs delight mostly because they are really excellent at customer service.
I'd like to see a cute little alternative health treatment centre where I could do Indian Head Massages! (Naturally with glossy magazines for customers, and a little bell on the door... I'm getting so carried away.)
Or an animal-friendly products boutique full of beautifully packaged treats.
And an art gallery/shop where you could also grab a coffee.
And more local concert venues and more concerts!
I'd like to see a cute little alternative health treatment centre where I could do Indian Head Massages! (Naturally with glossy magazines for customers, and a little bell on the door... I'm getting so carried away.)
Or an animal-friendly products boutique full of beautifully packaged treats.
And an art gallery/shop where you could also grab a coffee.
And more local concert venues and more concerts!
shops on the high street
No Squig, I live on Tannsfeld.
Over a year ago I emailed the town centre manager, because she was asking for suggestions for businessess to approach to ask if they would consider opening up on the high street in the Sydenham Society newsletter. I suggested she contacted East Dulwich shops. I don't know any of them. Do any of you? Maybe we could email some of them.
Also, I did email Somerfield head office around the same time and asked if they had any plans to modernise the Sydenham branch along the lines of the Market Fresh in ED and they said they had no plans to revamp any more stores. Perhaps if others emailed they might change their minds.
Also, what about a theatre at the old sorting office, or that building that is up for auction (I think) at the bottom of Queensthorpe. That would be great, I think.
Over a year ago I emailed the town centre manager, because she was asking for suggestions for businessess to approach to ask if they would consider opening up on the high street in the Sydenham Society newsletter. I suggested she contacted East Dulwich shops. I don't know any of them. Do any of you? Maybe we could email some of them.
Also, I did email Somerfield head office around the same time and asked if they had any plans to modernise the Sydenham branch along the lines of the Market Fresh in ED and they said they had no plans to revamp any more stores. Perhaps if others emailed they might change their minds.
Also, what about a theatre at the old sorting office, or that building that is up for auction (I think) at the bottom of Queensthorpe. That would be great, I think.
