New barriers at Sydenham Station

[Eagle]

Thanks Annie

Parker
Petrol has increased in last six years more than rail fares so you presumably support people who leave filling stations without payment.

[parker]

No, that would be harder to get away with, would be pretty stupid to try and do that; wouldn't it...? So because petrol has increased in price does that mean those in charge of the rise are right in doing so?

Shouldn't they be held as accountable as those who commit a criminal offence?

The problem is we all conform and do what we're told and it's because of the types of attitudes that can be found on this forum that we can't do anything about it. Like people that tip at a restaurant when the food's been bad, service substandard because it's 'the thing you're supposed to do'. People are sheep. Same principal.

[Annie.]

Sorry Parker it doesn't follow, a criminal offence is just that, and other people have to pay the shortfall.

[parker]

Well Annie, if nothing else (though you do not agree) I hope you understand the viewpoint I'm coming from... The law system, one rule for some, another ball game for others to put up with; doesn't make the system a correct one, therefore one can make a mockery.

[Annie.]

Parker, I understand your gripe with continually growing rail prices, I think they are way to high, but I don't think using it as an excuse to be a criminal and avoiding payment it a valid one, it's like stealing from a shop, someone else always pay. It's not a fair thing to do.

[parker]

it's like stealing from a shop, someone else always pay. It's not a fair thing to do.

Annie, what I am saying is that they keep rising the prices regardless of whether people choose to pay their fare or not...

No it's not like that at all; they'll put the prices up every January whether people fare dodge or not.

Thank you.

[Annie.]

Whatever way you look at it, it is still a criminal offence to fare dodge, and fare hikes should not be used as an excuse.

[Annie.]

Not according to the website I have looked at, Fare evasion is a criminal offence, I don't know how to link it but is under fare evasion - going to court, it clearly states it is a criminal offence.

[parker]

I did think it being a 'criminal offence' was going a bit TOO far...

[Annie.]

I will believe it when Bensonby tells me it is not a criminal offence to dodge fares.

[Annie.]

[Annie.]

Merry Christmas to all.
(Especially our lovely police force)

[Annie.]

Bah Humbug

[parker]

The filth don't get a Merry Christmas from me!

[robbieduncan]

Regardless of the price I was about to pay I was a bit disappointed that the new barriers were not open this morning.

[bensonby]

Fare evasion is certainly not a civil matter. It is a criminal offence under s.5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Furthermore it is a recordable offence which means that it is recorded on one's criminal record (unlike most traffic offences for example).

It is also a specific offence under the bylaws to exit the station in an improper manner by not using the barriers appropriately.

The matter of civil recovery of penalty fares et al is a different thing entirely.

[bensonby]

So you'd advocate at least one uniformed member of the police force at every single station in the network to catch a handful of fare dodgers? Because the last time I checked station staff have the same power of arrest as you or I.

Actually, railway staff have an extra power of arrest above and beyond the power of arrest that anyone has. S.5(2) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 states:

If a passenger having failed either to produce, or if requested to deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or to pay his fare, refuses or fails on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, to give his name and address, any officer of the company may detain him until he can be conveniently brought before some justice or otherwise discharged by due course of law.

The thing is, that most railway companies will not allow their staff to exercise that power (after all, it is a "power" and not a "duty") because of insurance concerns.

[Eagle]

Bensonby

Thanks for your clarification that this indeed is a crime.

Parker
I am disgusted re your comment about The Police.

[bensonby]

What? Do you think they're walking legal compendiums? They have the power of arrest and then there is a secondary process that assesses a criminal case.

Well, although there is a stated case that police officers do not need to quote the exact Act and Section of a law when arresting or exercising some power under the law (R on the Application of Rutherford Vs The IPCC 2010 - if you are interested) an officer needs to know what is and what isn't an offence in order to do their job. Therefore a working knowledge of law and an internal "list of offences" and what forms those offences is essential.

[Annie.]

Thank you Bensonby, Merry Christmas to you and all our hard working police officers .