tfl journey planner bias

[Rachael]

I've noticed in the past few months that the tfl journey planner does not show me routes that involve rail or rail only unless I force it to by eliminating other options. If I want to go to Charing Cross, I will take a train to London Bridge then change onto a Charing Cross train. But when I ask the tfl planner to get me to to Charing Cross, it only shows me the Overground and Tube options. Only by going to the advance options and selecting rail only will I get the mainline options. Is this new? Is it just me? Is there some sinister conspiracy at tfl to Not Talk About the Trains?

[chrisj1948]

It is not just you. The Tfl journey planner has its own agenda, although I suspect that this might have more to do with demand balancing than any dark conspiracy. I am most irritated by having to work hard to force it to give me a route to Heathrow without using the expensive Heathrow Express.

Regards
Chris

[Rachael]

I don't know about demand balancing - it NEVER gives me the rail option, whatever the time or day.

So my next question - is there a better journey planner out there?

[stuart]

I needed to get to Watford Junction tomorrow - with a bike which rules out the Northern Line to Euston. No planner could find a way. But I happened to know there is a train from East Croydon to Milton Keynes that passes through. T'is easy - a choice of routes to Clapham Junction, join it there and bob's your uncle.

Nothing beats looking at the travel map and testing routes to from some obvious junction points on the planner. Its the only way to find the optimum route.

Stuart

[marymck]

You could try this site Rachael ...

http://m.nationalrail.co.uk/pj/home#

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[michael]

By default it is set to the shortest route. Using overground is about 5 minutes quicker to get to charing cross. If you change the setting to least changes then the mainline services will appear, with fewer overground options shown. The problem is you have to choose fastest or easiest before seeing the search results. When the difference is only 5 minutes you should really be given both options.

The via option can be very useful to force it to choose the route you want i.e. via london bridge or clapham junction.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Robin Orton]

I always use Transport Direct, which used, I think, to be run by the Department of Transport and is still funded by them but is now run by a consortium led by Atos. I have usually found it accurate and reliable.
http://www.transportdirect.info/Web2/Ho ... tingloop=Y

[michael]

They recommend the same route.

[mosy]

I also use http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/p ... ney/search (as suggested by marymck) whichh gives options including some quite off-the-wall ones. I notice that route options available going from A to B can involve different carriers so different cost. Useful though if engineering works are disrupting the "obvious" route.

[Rachael]

I tried the National Rail site just now - the route they offered to get to Charing Cross involved Overground to Shadwell, then several changes on the Tube. Duration 51 minutes. Even TfL did better than that this morning, offering rail to LB followed by Tube, duration 31 minutes.

[mosy]

Yes, I thought going via Shadwell & three tube changes was decidedly off the wall, so much so that I wondered why it was included other than that "it can be done", although it could be done by going via Brighton or Glasgow

On the other hand, National Rail are not bound to or by TFL (or their route advice) so can offer any route they like, applying charges relevant. This cropped up (though rather obscurely) in a Freedom of Info request when TFL were asked to explain their charges.

NB Most peeps can happily ignore the rest of this post, in fact all peeps can

The request was to TFL, effectively "How come I'm charged 'as if going via Zone 1' if I specifically choose a route that circumvents Zone 1"?" That is not relevant here since both London Bridge and Ch. X are both in Zone 1, and if you ignore all the red tape necessary preambles, pricing policy is interesting, and in particular this annotation:
[quote]
John left an annotation (28 September 2012)

To clarify:

Out of station interchanges (OSIs) and pink route validators apply route validation codes to the card chip during open journeys. The system is technically and contractually limited to a certain number of validation codes. Code numbers are consequently shared between two or more OSI and / or route validator stations.
When a journey is 'closed' on exit, the exit validator checks the start station, the end station and the lowest numbered validation code applied to the card chip during the journey.
If an alternative fare has been programmed for that start station, end station and route validation code, then the aternative fare is charged. If no alternative fare has been programmed, the default fare is charged.
If no code has been applied (for a simple A to B journey) then the default fare is applied.
Additionally, fares charged at the National Rail and combined ('though') scales are by agreement with the train operators and are not solely determined by Transport for London. If no paper ticket sold that excludes zone 1 I believe it is unlikely that an Oyster fare will be programmed to exclude Zone 1, regardless of whether it is technically possible to do so.
[end quote] (My bold)
Taken from: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ined_as_re

In effect, TFL will charge (and thus I assume will advertise) their most lucrative route unless having to comply with or match, or having agreed with, other carriers' prices/ticketing (and presumably possibly sharing the ticket price).

In other words, I wouldn't rule out bias by TFL although no-one has to go via their suggested routes. Hey ho.

[alywin]

You also need to watch out for the FareFinder. I've had it quote me the odd truly ludicrous fare. Plus, I once did a trip from Wimbledon > Tulse Hill > Birkbeck (Z3/4), and got charged for a route via Clapham Junction (Z2/3/4), despite the fact that i) it wasn't physically possible to do it that quickly going W > CJ > Crystal Palace > Birkbeck and ii) all JourneyPlanner's recommendations (apart from using the tram) were to go via Tulse Hill.

I'd like to know why there isn't a pink ticket validator at Clapham Junction, given the number of journeys it's possible to make via there without going into Z1. I always double-check to make sure I haven't been charged extra for those journeys.

[alywin]

Oh, and I also want to know what's going to happen when there are no SouthEastern trains stopping at London Bridge because of the redevelopment and everyone who wants to change is forced to use the Tube. Will Boris tweak the computers so that we still pay however much it is to go Charing Cross>London Bridge and all points "south", or will we get clobbered with an extra £1.30 or so per journey for the dubious privilege of having to go by Tube and change?