Just lost respect for Sydenham Town Forum

[Annie.]

I was responding to the OP

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[Rachael]

I was responding to the OP

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In which case we are in agreement!

[Tim Lund]

Whilst I can understand why Admin has done this, I think it's going to make some threads very difficult to administer. Housing for example, where many of the pressures on Lewisham are because of our high levels of immigration. You can't look seriously at the need for more housing without acknowledging population growth, Much of which official statistics already shared on this site have shown is down to immigration. Unpalatable as it may be to have to acknowledge. So discussions on housing would need to get relegated to the ghetto of the Town Benefit Office thread. Similarly any discussions on the need for so many more school places. People who have genuine concerns about these pressures don't all deserve to be labelled as bigots.

I agree with Mary that Admin has probably made his life harder by this decision. As an experiment, it may not work, but it's worth attempting. I have a feeling that Admin will leave such discussions in the Pub where they are reasonable and based on fact. It's when they are unsupported and borderline offensive that he'll move them. Truly offensive posts break forum rules and I'm sure those will be removed in the normal way.

Putting certain posts in a separate forum also highlights who *ahem* are most often the originators and perpetuators of these threads, which usually follow this pattern:

1. OP states something as fact but without supporting evidence.
2. Other members ask for supporting evidence and provide own evidence for counter argument.
3. OP ignores counter evidence and continues to state opinion as fact.
4. Other members continue to ask for evidence.
5. OP stops contributing to thread without ever answering directly asked questions.
6. OP starts another thread in same style.
7. Cycle continues ad infinitum.

The problem with this sort of posting is that it gets tedious and sucks the life out of the Pub. Putting them to one side liberates the Pub for other discussions. It also solves the conundrum that while we know arguing with certain posters is like trying to wrestle with jelly, we don't want to leave their views unchallenged as we run the risk of visitors to the forum assuming we all agree. Letting such threads wither will be easier if they are quarantined elsewhere.

However, Admin does run the risk of being accused of victimising a small number of posters.

I think Mary and Rachael have got this right. For reasons which have nothing to do with being censored or victimised, I'm only allowing myself a brief intervention here. It's nice to see Mary registering the logic of my often made points about housing, and linking that to the concerns other posters have, although not me, about immigration. It's best if those of us who do irritate others by banging on about some subject work out for ourselves how to get our views across more effectively.

Who'd be Admin?

If you're reading this Lee, is this where you suggest a group hug?

[Annie.]

I was responding to the OP

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

In which case we are in agreement!

I was trying to reassure the OP that this forum is not Racist! And that discussions about immigration etc were not Racist subjects.
So nothing to do with what you were saying then Rachael

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[Barry]

Looks like a good decision, guests to this forum will not be able to read the rantings.
All hail the Admin.

[Robin Orton]

I must say I've only just hoisted on board that, unlike the other forums on this site, the Town Benefit Office is accessible only to those who are logged in, so not to casual visitors. I must say I wonder why that is thought to be necessary or desirable.

[14BradfordRoad]

I must say I've only just hoisted on board that, unlike the other forums on this site, the Town Benefit Office is accessible only to those who are logged in, so not to casual visitors. I must say I wonder why that is thought to be necessary or desirable.

Maybe Casual visitors are not entitled to benefit!

[Rachael]

Maybe we should all stop navel gazing now and get on with posting in the forum as usual, and see how it all shakes out.

[mosy]

I must say I've only just hoisted on board that, unlike the other forums on this site, the Town Benefit Office is accessible only to those who are logged in, so not to casual visitors. I must say I wonder why that is thought to be necessary or desirable.

I wonder that.

Racism has existed since the year dot and always will IMO despite politically correct protestations to the contrary. I'd rather have views "out there" to argue with rather than bury them as if they didn't exist. By racism, I mean anyone or group that is not the current popular face in political terms, be it immigrant, wrong colour, old or young, or anyone else seen as drain on funds by those sitting pretty. Removing "bad" posts (if within the board rules) merely disguises. Living on Cloud 9 if thinking that all is hunky dory.

I think we should get on with airing views and get beaten down or agreed with, and a true mix of views (if they are) has to be better than censorship.

[owlwise]

This thread is very revealing. I express that the title of the thread that groups immigrants as benefit cheats is offensive and racist and this brings out all sorts of opinions and deliberations. YOU ALL MISS THE POINT. It's common sense and you don't have to have experienced racism yourself to find this racist.

Admin, you might need to just change the title of that thread.

You can debate and deliberate all you like about freedom of speech and racism but when you pigeonhole immigrants as benefit cheats on this forum I will lose respect for this forum and all who use it and will consider the lot of you as hypocrites.

[Rachael]

This thread is very revealing. I express that the title of the thread that groups immigrants as benefit cheats is offensive and racist and this brings out all sorts of opinions and deliberations. YOU ALL MISS THE POINT. It's common sense and you don't have to have experienced racism yourself to find this racist.

Admin, you might need to just change the title of that thread.

You can debate and deliberate all you like about freedom of speech and racism but when you pigeonhole immigrants as benefit cheats on this forum I will lose respect for this forum and all who use it and will consider the lot of you as hypocrites.

Oh, good grief. Admin was NOT pigeon-holing immigrants as benefit cheats! To do so would of course be racist. It was perfectly clear to me that the title of his post was ironic. Satirical, even, and was intended to point out the nature of the threads he had moved. That's all.

I'm getting really confused, actually, about what you are saying. Are you accusing Admin of being racist? Or are you saying he shouldn't use that title because it sounds racist? It deliberately sounds racist, to UNDERMINE the very racism you are complaining about.

[Annie.]

In that case you are just asking for the title to be changed? Surely that's down to Admin,no one else has the power.
PS, I couldn't care less if you think me a hypocrite or not.
And yes ,I have " felt" racism, but I still consider this board is not in anyway Racist, but you could be right that the title is not good.

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[owlwise]

No need to get hysterical about this. No, I'm not accusing Admin of being racist. If you read what I wrote properly I am suggesting Admin changes the title, satirical or otherwise, I think it's inappropriate.

[Rachael]

No need to get hysterical about this. No, I'm not accusing Admin of being racist. If you read what I wrote properly I am suggesting Admin changes the title, satirical or otherwise, I think it's inappropriate.

If I mis-interpretated what you wrote, it is because I didn't see how anyone could see that the title was satirical and still think it inappropriate. To me it is powerfully anti-racist.

Calling us all hypocrites wasn't hysterical?

In any case, this is my last word on the subject.

[hazy]

i agree with owlwise - completely understand admin's thinking - but the context will only be resonant to those of us who frequent the forum & are aware of (& bored with) these familiar refrains

[14BradfordRoad]

Amazing, what a can of worms this has opened! Admin is clearly only trying his/her best here. some of us
may disagree with the decision but as Abraham Lincoln said:
“You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people
all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.”

[hazy]

oh, don't get me wrong, 14, i really don't care. i'd rather be offended than bored. just think that owlwise has a point, as does admin, as do we all .....

[Eagle]

Well , this has certainly created much discussion. I wonder what suddenly persuaded the admin to create this new
separate subject heading , on its own.
I would like to think he or she was not pushed into it by a rant from dick, but timing seemed to imply could have been.

Very sad. I am not a racist and have never used racist terms on this site and I know most , if not all , of other contributers have done this.

As Tim said discussion about matters such as housing is going to be a problem as well. Impossible to discuss the need for housing without discussing potential immigration. Same applies to NHS and most other services.

I know it can not be easy administering a site like this and congrats to him or her for there good work, however I do think they acted a bit quickly on the rantings of Mr Dick.

[admin]

Eagle. I can find no rant from dickp. I hope this may help you to accept my sole reason for the change was to facilitate the widest range of debate from the broadest range of contributors.

That includes you.

Re subject matter. If Lewisham's housing policy had a citizenship element the proper place for discussion is Town Hall. When a primarily economic discussion has a citizenship issue then it would start in Town Pub. When it is about citizenship then it should start in Town BO. If you are in doubt start it in BO. If and when another thread is highjacked into a citizenship thread it, or part of it, will be moved to BO.

HTH
Admin

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[marymck]

TBO has disappeared from the board index - at least it has in the mobile version. Has it gone already?

Edit to say it's back again! Very strange.

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