Has anyone found a sign indicating the times/permissions for the new bus lane on Kirkdale? I've been past a few times recently and haven't yet managed to spot one, although I may just be unobservant!
If there isn't one, then apparently the bus lane is unenforceable... (http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/bus.htm)
Kirkdale Bus Lane
Re: Kirkdale Bus Lane
From the site "A bus lane which states ‘At any time’ or has no hours of operation on the sign operates 24 hours a day, 7 days a week."paget76 wrote:Has anyone found a sign indicating the times/permissions for the new bus lane on Kirkdale? I've been past a few times recently and haven't yet managed to spot one, although I may just be unobservant!
If there isn't one, then apparently the bus lane is unenforceable... (http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/bus.htm)
So if there's no hours it operates 24 hours a day
Ok - but who may use it? Cyclists generally can use bus lanes and motor cyclists some bus lanes. And I note that the narrowness of the three lanes has made it very, very dangerous for all cyclists. Without signage we have to guess.meaty wrote:So if there's no hours it operates 24 hours a day
I am begining to come to the conclusion that whoever is doing the road signing around Cobbs Corner doesn't understand the law or reality.
I give, for example, the yellow box on Westwood Hill at the Lawrie Park Road junction. It appears to give cars & particulary buses the ability to feed into the roundabout when there is a traffic queue down the hill. This is a good idea. However, if you need this then the exit to the island is by definition blocked. And it is illegal (unless someone has been changing the rules yet again) to turn right into a box if your exit is blocked.
There is a CCTV camera pointing directly to the box so if management of that service was ever placed in the same hands as the parking company - you could be the target of a money making scam without a leg to stand on.
Signage should be clear and unambiguous. Otherwise you create danger and not eliminate it. The death statistics are beginning to suggest that we are getting into serious trouble with our traffic management in this country.
Having said that I welcome the new speed camera going down Westwood Hill. Too many vehicles have misjudged the camber on the bend and left the road to demolish adjoining walls to make walking on that side of the road safe.
Can't quite make out why they have done one opposite up the hill. Is it because it is outside a school? Anybody who knows that stretch may agree the greatest danger there is illegal parking on the yellow stripes by Chelsea Tractors collecting their offspring. Is this is the place for a CCTV camera to help prosecute these often rude and dangerous people. Surely this would be better than a speed camera when drivers should be looking at the pavement instead of their speedometer ...
Does anybody do any local consultation on these to get a full understanding of the dangers? Mistakes can be expensive and dangerous.
Stuart
They must be signed with the bus lane sign. The hours of operation underneath is actually a separate sign in the regulations and for a 24 hour bus lane it is not required. However some authorites do put "at any time" for information.Suzee wrote:That website states that bus lanes must be "fully signed throughout their length". I'm pretty sure that even 24hr bus lanes have a sign saying "at anytime" and whether taxis, cycles may use it. The Kirkdale bus lane has no signage at all.
Do TfL regulate bus lanes?
TfL only operate bus lanes on the red routes all others are controlled by the relevant council. The sign regulations are stipulated by the Department for Transport
Just a couple of points. Vehicles can still gather enough speed after the camera to lose control on the bend, that's why I think it was put there because of the school. Is this school any different from other schools?stuart wrote: Having said that I welcome the new speed camera going down Westwood Hill. Too many vehicles have misjudged the camber on the bend and left the road to demolish adjoining walls to make walking on that side of the road safe.
Stuart
Also from what I have seen most of the cars that have crashed into the wall/fence or parked vehicles have been stolen cars ridden by joy riders, or cars not taxed or insured so the camera would not apply to them.
However I guess if these cameras save one life (maybe an innocent pedestrian walking up Westwood Hill, near Jews Walk) they will be worth it.
Could I just mention about yellow boxes that it is acceptable to enter a box from a side road in order to turn right if the traffic this side is stationary and need to wait for a space on the other side of the road. It is not allowed to do that for turning left (not sure why, except perhaps blocking right-turning peeps).
Also, the test case did not cover moving into a box just because the road was clear this side but blocked the other, if I recall correctly, only OK if squeezing through stationary traffic this side. That makes sense though, because if the road is clear this side, there shouldn't be any traffic in the box on the other, so one can move into the box on the other side without disruption to oncoming traffic this side.
Re coming down Westwood Hill, it's not easy to stay under 30. Does anyone know if there's a tolerance, as some police forces allow a couple mph for car speedos, whilst council's making money instead of issuing points have a vested interest.
Also, the test case did not cover moving into a box just because the road was clear this side but blocked the other, if I recall correctly, only OK if squeezing through stationary traffic this side. That makes sense though, because if the road is clear this side, there shouldn't be any traffic in the box on the other, so one can move into the box on the other side without disruption to oncoming traffic this side.
Re coming down Westwood Hill, it's not easy to stay under 30. Does anyone know if there's a tolerance, as some police forces allow a couple mph for car speedos, whilst council's making money instead of issuing points have a vested interest.
Isn't the guideline something like 10% + 3 mph (ie 36 mph)mosy wrote:
Re coming down Westwood Hill, it's not easy to stay under 30. Does anyone know if there's a tolerance, as some police forces allow a couple mph for car speedos, whilst council's making money instead of issuing points have a vested interest.
Please remember the reason for the cameras on Westwood Hill. There's a school, a number of junctions which, if you're coming down the hill too 'fast' are blind to you, the driver. Also over the last few months there have been a number of accidents.
Take care - you are going to have to stop at Cobbs Corner anyway - relax and enjoy the journey.
Take care - you are going to have to stop at Cobbs Corner anyway - relax and enjoy the journey.
I agree it is hard to stick to 30 coming down Westwood Hill but easier when doing it in 3rd gear which slows you down. Whether or not your caught speeding depends on the speed the camera is set on. A few years ago I heard of a camera on one of the bridges in West London being set significantly higher than the speed limit because they couldn't deal with the number of people getting caught. This was about 10 years ago so am sure technology is swifter and smarter now! I heard it from a copper so am assuming it was true!
The most ridiculously dangerous speed camera in the area in my mind is the one along Brenchley Gardens. If you didn't know the road and were aware of the sudden change from 30 to 20 you'd be caught all of the time. I think the speed limit signs are obscured some of the time. Not entirely sure but I know that until I was aware of the change of speed limit I was often having to slam the breaks on to go from 30 to 20 before the camera
The most ridiculously dangerous speed camera in the area in my mind is the one along Brenchley Gardens. If you didn't know the road and were aware of the sudden change from 30 to 20 you'd be caught all of the time. I think the speed limit signs are obscured some of the time. Not entirely sure but I know that until I was aware of the change of speed limit I was often having to slam the breaks on to go from 30 to 20 before the camera
Back to the bus lane issue, I meant to update this a while back but completely forgot! I emailed Lewisham council in September, who confirmed that the bus lane is not yet in operation, as they haven't applied for the traffic order for it yet! Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the email (over-zealous housekeeping...), but I would hope anyone else emailing the relevant department would get the same response.
Incidentally, nasaroc/meaty - while a bus lane stating no times is deemed to be active at all times, it still has to have a sign at the start (and at points along it's length) indicating that it is a bus lane.
Incidentally, nasaroc/meaty - while a bus lane stating no times is deemed to be active at all times, it still has to have a sign at the start (and at points along it's length) indicating that it is a bus lane.
This sounds like our council are spending money 'setting up' the bus lane before they have permission to install a bus lane. What happens if they do not get permission? They have already spent our money (whether it comes from council tax or central funds).
I wonder hw many times they have done this in the past, and whether permission is sometimes not given.
I wonder hw many times they have done this in the past, and whether permission is sometimes not given.
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Nickerbockers
- Posts: 228
- Joined: 31 Oct 2007 13:04
- Location: Sydenham
I am SOOOO glad that bus lane got put in! I take it a lot of you have your own car if you're not in favour. Well I'm one of those who doesn't, and I have to come down Kirkdale to get home from work. When there was no bus lane, I could be sitting in the Kirkdale/Cobbs Corner traffic for up to 20 minutes after shooting through up to that point. I'd be four stops away from home and that last bit would take as long as the rest of the journey had taken!? In principal I would try not to get off and walk, coz a) it might be freezing cold and/or raining, b) I may be knackered, and c) why the hell should I? I pay the ever escalating travel fares to use the damned 176 so why should I pay all that money and get off several stops too early every day!??
I only realised the bus lane was there late last week after recently moving back to Sydenham, and I was so thankful!
No more dreading coming round the corner of Dartmouth Road only to see the traffic backed up to Wells Park Road, now I can just sail straight past the traffic and get home in reasonable time! At least cars can turn off and use another route, when you're on a bus, you're stuck there!
So well done Council for actually doing some NECESSARY roadworks for once - it doesn't happen often!
I only realised the bus lane was there late last week after recently moving back to Sydenham, and I was so thankful!
No more dreading coming round the corner of Dartmouth Road only to see the traffic backed up to Wells Park Road, now I can just sail straight past the traffic and get home in reasonable time! At least cars can turn off and use another route, when you're on a bus, you're stuck there!So well done Council for actually doing some NECESSARY roadworks for once - it doesn't happen often!