Prospect Place, Wells Road

[Michael Viner]

Dear Brannan,Thanks for your wonderful,important new photos and contributions to Upper Sydenham and particularly Wells Park Rd. area history! I can solve the mystery of the great 'Mum and Nanny' photo; what can be seen in the back ground is the corner of Oaksford Avenue and Wells(Park) Rd. The shop on the right was 126 Wells Rd.,which was R.H. Allen, Chemists in the early 30's.I think it may have been a general store before that.Today it is the site of the Vicarage(St.Philips).The building on the left is the first house in Oaksford Ave,. No.1 ,which,like all the lower half to three quarters of Oaksford(where I grew up in the 1960's/70's) was destroyed by a V2 flying bomb in 1944.This is the first photo to ever turn up of either of these buildings.
Anyway,this means that the photo was taken at the front gate of 'The Wells' near the corner of Wells Rd./Taylors Lane.

I'll talk to my dear old (97 this year!) friend Eileen Franks,who grew up in Dallas Rd,later this week and ask her about that shop on the corner of Oaksford Ave. and ask her what it sold in the 1920's.

[Michael Viner]

Sorry,in my last post I should have said the first CLEAR(ish) photo of the shop on the corner of Oaksford Ave..The top of it,mostly the roof&chimney, can be seen in a c.1905 Wells Rd. postcard reproduced on page 78 in John Coulter&John Seaman's 1st book of archive Sydenham&Forest Hill photos.Incidentally,if you look at the photo on page 81 of that book,showing 'The Wells' you'll see that the two wooden gates(presumably one for each house-The Wells was two houses combined in the one cottage) are identical to the ones in Brannans' photo.

[Brannan]

Dear Michael
Thanks very much for that - it ties up with the fact that the Tripps lived in The Wells (or at least one side of it). I'll have to get the book you mention. On other threads I have posted a picture of my grandfather's milkcart outside the Wells and in another location, possibly Coombe Road.
James

[maureen barrett]

Hello There Your news cuttings are most interesting and really tragic.
As I recall the Brannans and the Tripps were Sunday school teachers with Mr Bulpitt at the London City Mission Hall at the top of Bradford Road during the 1950's.Is this the same family?
Lesley Tripp lived at the top of Prospect Road and married Mary Rudd.I remember Lesley used to get 1st class or honours certificates at the scripture union prize giving in London.
I must ask my Aunty Eva(94 and still living in wells Park Road), whether she remembers the Brannans and the tragedy that occured.

regards Maureen

[Brannan]

Thanks - yes, it's certainly the same family; Leslie Tripp is my uncle. The accident concerned my grandfather Tripp, who was a coal merchant at the time and had a yard on Kirkdale, where the horse in question was kept. My parents met through the mission and married in 1950, then moving away from Sydenham. My mother had lived in Coombe Road until the age of 7 (1933), then no. 8 Prospect Road.

[Brannan]

I would like to pay tribute to my Uncle Leslie Tripp, as he died last Wednesday. He was born in Coombe Road in 1931 and moved to 8 Prospect Road shortly afterwards. He once wrote the following about the house where he grew up:

****

Let me tell you about the house in Prospect Road. It was a terraced house – one of about sixty – in a quiet suburban cul-de-sac. Downstairs, we had the ‘front room’, the kitchen and the scullery. Upstairs were three bedrooms. We had a very tiny front garden, and ‘out the back’ a six foot high fence separating us from next door, on which hung a galvanised bath and a wooden and gauze ‘safe’ for food. Then there was the outside toilet, a coal shed and a small garden area, about twelve feet square, with a rockery, marigolds, lilies, golden rod, michaelmas daisies and ‘Moses in the bulrushes’. After that came the dustbin and a privet hedge beside the back gate. Beyond that was a narrow passage way which was used mainly by the dustmen. Can you picture it? I hope so, because there is no way you could go and see it today; it was all demolished in the ‘slum clearance’ programme many years since.

The scullery housed the mangle, which could be folded into a small table, the gas copper, gas cooker and the sink. Oh yes, we were very civilised for those days! On bath night – usually Saturday – the bath would be brought in from outside and filled with hot water from the copper. We would then take it in turns to wash in it, before dragging the bath out of the back door and tipping the contents down the drain.

One important service we did not have, however, was electricity. The rooms were lit by gas lamps, and usually it was only the kitchen and maybe the scullery that were lit. Torches were very much in evidence when we went to bed. The front room was used only on special occasions.


Without television sets, computer games or mobile telephones, everyday life might also appear to have been boring; but there was always plenty to do and see. Wells Park was not far away and my sister and I spent many hours playing there. Even in our own street there was always something going on: the milkman with his handcart, doling out the milk with his pint measure, the rag-and-bone man, ringing his bell and calling out ‘any old iron!’ or ‘rag-n-bone!’ as he went up and down the road with his horse and cart. Once a week the dustmen came. The ‘dustcart’, as we called it, was horse-drawn. By the time it reached the bottom of the road it was considered too heavy for the horse to pull back up, so a lorry carrying an empty dustcart would arrive. The empty cart would be winched down off the lorry, and the full one winched up. This event was always witnessed by a good crowd of youngsters! The lorry would drive off and the horse would draw the empty dustcart up the hill, ready to start the same process in the next street.

Opposite our house was a gap in the houses, about 40 feet wide. At one time this space was occupied by a laundry. It was very exciting watching the demolition of this building, especially when the end came! Only the front wall had been left standing – the workmen all gathered at the front and pushed until the wall gave way under the pressure! There were bricks and dust everywhere!


****
The photo of Leslie Tripp, below, was published in a national newspaper - here is his own account:

A funny thing happened on the way to school in November (1945). I was cycling down the lane when I spotted a lady selling poppies. Nothing unusual about that just before Armistice Day. What was different was the fact that there was a fellow with a camera, taking photographs. I decided I could afford a penny or two, so I stopped to buy a poppy. Later that day the London Evening News had a picture on the front page – the caption read, “SELLING POPPIES in a leafy lane near Sydenham Hill, London. Mrs. O. M. Day, one of the 350,000 voluntary poppy sellers who hope between them to collect £1,250,000.” The comical part of it was that it was really quite a good photo of me, but only a side view of the lady in question – you couldn’t see her face at all!

[maureen barrett]

Dear Brannan,
What a lovely tribute to Leslie.I am so sad to hear of his death.
I remember him so well from the Sunday school when he was probably in his later teens, taking bible studies for Mr Bulpitt.
His recollection of life in Prospect Road,and his description of his home brought a lump to my throat.
Life in Bradford Road mirrored it, particularly the bath and the 'safe' on the wall in the garden,the flowers the mangle and copper and the gas light.
I love the photo...he looked the same when I knew him.
I will tell my cousins Rex and Marian and Aunty Eva and sister Eileen as I know they will be sorry to hear of your loss.
Thank you for sharing it with us.
Regards Maureen

[pauline baker]

My grandmother and her grandmother lived in Prospect Road at no.53 the name was Florence Stillwell and my mother and uncle were brought up there,my mums name was also Florence and her brother is Peter Stillwell. It would be interesting to find out if anyone knew my family,my mother married Walter Baker and she had 5 girls ...we spent a lot of time at Prospect Road,and us girls went to Kelvin Grove School in the 50's then onto Sydenham Girls School...

[pauline baker]

I remember Leslie Tripp and Mr Bulpitt at the London City Mission,myself and sisters when to Sunday School and the Friday Club in the Basement of the Mission,we loved going there.I still have my bible and prize books which were given for good attendance. I had a lot of friends in Bradford Road ... The Dales especially Linda she was one of my best friends and the Chandler family Lil,Pauline,Maureen,Barry and another brother ... we also had friends in Dallas Road i.e. Cranstoun family and Plane Street were the Jenkins family,it would be interesting if to know if anyone knew us...

[maureen barrett]

Hello there Pauline,Your name is very familiar to me.
I lived at 33 Bradford Road a few doors up from the Chandler family...Raymond was the brother you couldnt remember.
my maiden name was Maureen Myles and I had 6 brothers and sisters.my brother Michael, sister Eileen had the same surname, but after my mum was widowed she re-married and Susan, Andrew, Julia and Clive Dale are cousins of Linda, Kathleen ,Tony , Alan and Tricia who lived further down the road .Their father Bill was my stepfather Sydney Dale's brother, their Mum Pat (nee Fish) used to live at 31 Bradford next door to our house.I remember her Mum(who kept chickens like us) and sisters particularly Dorothy.
Are you still in touch with the Dale or Chandler family?
I went to St Phillips school, then Kelvin Grove (1951) and on to Sydenham Girls school.
I also remember the Cranston name but must search the recesses of my memory for more...its funny how a name or event can nudge the old brain cells into retreiving 'old and dusty' memories.
Do you remember the bakers on the corner of Springfield and the stable with horse and cart behind it?
Regards Maureen(nee Myles)

[maureen barrett]

Dear Brannan
I have had a chance to speak to a few of my relatives and read them the touching tribute to your Uncle Leslie Tripp.Everyone of them remembers him fondly and his mother who was a very sweet lady.
My sister Eileen remembers going to the house each week for Bible studies with Mrs Tripp, I think she said on Mondays.
Cousin Marian knew about the terrible accident with your Grandfather and seemed to think it happened in Wells Park Road near the shops there(although she could be mistaken).
She actually remembered the newspaper article when Leslie bought a poppy because it was so rare that anybody local was mentioned that it stuck in her mind.....
Aunty Jean remembers the Brannan family from Coombe Road .
Her first job was with firm that made thermometers in forest hill, owned by Syd Brannan from coombe Road....Is it a branch of the same family or a coincidence.
Also for a few years my Uncle Ernie Myerson and Aunty Daisy lived in the house right next door to where the laundry was!
I look forward to finding out more.
regards Maureen

[Brannan]

Just a correction about the poppy seller picture - it was 1943, not 1945, and in fact just a few days before his father's accident. The lane in the picture was Lower Crosswood Lane.

Maureen, the thermometer business was founded by my grandfather Sydney Brannan in 1913 and they had various workshops around Forest Hill until the last factory in Dalmain Road closed in 1973. I would be interested to know when your Aunty Jean worked there. The only thing wrong with her story is Coombe Road - my mother's family the Tripps lived there (1925-1933), not the Brannans. From 1936 onwards Sydney Brannan lived in Longton Avenue.

The accident in which my maternal grandfather was killed happened on Kirkdale - he kept his horse and cart in a yard there (near the Sydenham Park Rd turning I believe). The horse that knocked him down ran quite a distance before it was caught.

I have a few more of my mother's photos to scan so I'll add them to this thread. There's one of her in the back garden of 8 Prospect Road and as a child in Coombe Road. Also some pictures of the old Coombe Road London City Mission, next to the Talma. A couple are very old, possibly late 20s, with the Minister Mr Jackman. Another is a picture of an outing in 1938 again showing a lot of local people - including three children who were killed when a bomb struck Bradford Rd.

The old mission was apparently turned into a factory around 1938. My Nan Mary Tripp taught in the Sunday school in the basement of that building, which was also a greengrocer's warehouse (with a smell of cabbages!).

There's a picture of the later mission building that my sister posted on another thread. I suppose Pauline is referring to that building, because she mentions Mr Bulpitt.

Michael mentions further up this thread that the houses in Oaksford Road were damaged by a V2 - my mother thinks it was a V1. She remembers when it struck and the chaos in the middle of the night. The next morning among the rubbish in the street was a broken harmonium that the children played on.

Their own house in Prospect Road was hit in the Blitz and this is what my Uncle Les wrote about it:

One night when I was woken by a nearby bomb I said ‘I can smell oil’. Dad happened to be with us that night, so he looked out and said, ‘There’s a fire somewhere. I must go and see if I can help’. It was not long before we discovered the fire was in our own house. An oil bomb had fallen on ours and the next door house. The damage was mainly confined to the front bedroom, though the shock had brought down ceilings and some of the plaster walls in the other rooms. The front door had been blown off its hinges and brickwork littered the front garden. Thick black oil with a pungent stench was all around the front part of the house. It was clear that the house was completely uninhabitable.

It was of course repaired ...

That's all for now! James

[bradfordroadgirl]

Brannan said ................Another is a picture of an outing in 1938 again showing a lot of local people - including three children who were killed when a bomb struck Bradford Rd...........................

These were 3 of 6 children and the whole family were killed. They were called the Oddie family. Doris Funnell about 14 then, live opposite them at 42 (?) Bradford. Her family often looked after baby Audrey Oddie but that night Mr Oddie said that the baby would go to their shelter that night and so she died too.

My grandfather, Arthur Lambert, was one of the fire watchers that night and helped dig them out. My mum remembers it as a really upsetting time for the street and a great shock. She was about 9 and at school with a couple of these children.

[Brannan]

Here is the photo I mentioned of the London City Mission outing (to Bushey Park) - it must have been 1938. The bus is parked outside the old Mission on Coombe Road, showing the Talma to the left of it.

This is my Mum's identification of some of the people:

Les Tripp – boy in front far right / Mary Tripp (his Mum) – leaning forward behind him / lady to right of her in picture = Mrs Warne / girl in front = Betty / lady under rear side window of bus = Mrs Rudge and daughter Mary with beret peeping out below her (Mary was to marry Les).
3 children killed in Bradford Road by bomb: small girl in front wearing hat and boys to left of her and to right behind.
Ladies back row from left = Mrs Warne senior, Mrs Pordage, Mrs Peachey
Boys John Warne & Peter Warne (in front??) / Violet W. (in front of open bus door?)

[Brannan]

Photo of old Coombe Rd Mission, probably late 1920s, showing Mr Jackman in front.
The ladies in front, far right, are Lily Hemmings (right) and Sarah Hemmings, her mother (left) - my gt gt grandmother.
The lady behind them leaning slightly on the fence is Mrs Chamberlain.

[Brannan]

Other photo of old Coombe Rd mission - lady seated at front, second from left, is Mrs Wright

[Brannan]

Muriel Tripp in back garden of 8 Prospect Rd, abt. 1943
You can just see the bath hanging behind!

[Brannan]

Muriel and Les Tripp in back garden, Coombe Rd, abt 1932 (I think that's the back of Bradford Rd houses behind)

[maureen barrett]

Hi James, I just spoke to Auntie Jean...She worked for Brannans in Havelock Walk(near the old Ghinns shop) in Forest Hill.
She went there from school in 1942 and worked there until she married 15years later in 1957.She worked at Dalmain breifly, but found it rather big and a bit daunting.However after she had her 1st child she worked from home with a work bench that the firm fitted in her kitchen in Dallas Road(I dont know how they fitted one in the tiny kitchen there) as they were so desperate to get orders fulfilled.She remembers a Martin Brannan as well as Sydney(there was another brother but her mind had gone blank).She will get her thinking cap on.
Regards Maureen

[Michael Viner]

Dear Brannan,Thanks for more great photos! You just beat me to it with the nice photo of Muriel Tripp in the back garden of 8 Prospect Rd. I have a very similar one, taken 8 houses down on the same side at No.24 and around the same time,too.It shows my friend John Millers'uncle Frank Miller in the back garden of 24 Prospect Rd. some time in the 1940's.The view is actually looking towards Bradford Rd.;those are the backs of Bradford Rd. houses behind him.Note again the ubiquitous tin bath(right) and air raid shelter(left). Thanks to John Miller for photo.

Frank Miller by Michael Viner, on Flickr