Windmill pub becoming a sainsburys?

[geocontrol]

This evening I noticed 'Application for licence for premises' notices outside the Widmill pub, the name on it was Sainsburys.

Is the windmill going to become a sainsburys local, literally a couple of shops away from the tesco?

mark

[Eagle]

I suppose the NO to Tesco will become NO to Tesco and Sainsbury.

[G-Man]

Crazy. Considering there will be one at Cobbs Corner. Another generic brand in our united states of generica. As a space the Windmill could be an amazing pub too.

[michael]

Personally I don't believe it.

No planning application online just a licensing application outside the pub allegedly from Sainsburys. I don't suppose the pub landlord is called Mr Sainsbury?
It is possible that no planning application would be required to change from A5 to A1, but there would be a number of other changes to the building if Sainsburys were to take over which may well require planning permission.

G-man's observation is correct. There is no commercial sense in opening a Sainsburys two doors down from Tesco when also building another Sainsburys at the other end of the road.

[Eagle]

I agree Michael.

While we have few Tesco . Mr Sainsbury dominates the area.

It was a decent Pub for a while under Wetherspoon umbrella and also in the mid noughties. At that time served good real ale and OK ish food.

In last 4 years or so has gone down the hill to become a dive.

[geocontrol]

Here is a picture of the application, (sorry for the lights reflected in it) on my flickr account, for name it definitely has Sainsburys Supermarkets Ltd, but the address is that off the Windmill, not, say Sainsburys HQ.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/marksimpkins/8744219162/

Mark

[Eagle]

Surely we have far too many outlets selling cheap alcohol in SE26. They should be vetoed for that reason alone.

Unfortunately our Government has lost its nerve in tackling this very serious problem in our society. Shame on them.

[michael]

My apologies for doubting you!

I wonder what sainsburys are thinking about. At what point does Sydenham reach supermarket saturation point?

[JulietP]

Personally I would prefer to have virtually anything there instead of the Windmill.

Does seem an odd decision by sainsburys given the other stores so close. But tesco deserve a bit of competition on Kirkdale.

What else would people like there? I wouldn't want another restaurant because I worry about that's amore as it is.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Tim Lund]

Would Sainsbury's have to apply for change of use of the premises? Given that it would be to A1, would it be approved automatically?

Interesting that this licencing application doesn't yet appear on Lewisham's list of current applications, which is just a link to a Word document.

Whether Sydenham has reached supermarket saturation point is surely a question for market forces to decide. I'm sure Sainsbury's know what they are doing. I can't see how there would ever be any valid planning grounds to object.

I doubt if That's Amore needs protection. I think it would benefit from the cluster effect - up to a point at least - which Kirkdale has definitely not yet reached - the more an area looks like somewhere you can eat out, the better it is all round.

What's the problem with The Windmill? Noise, nuisance? Is this not something the licencing committee can deal with? Might problems they are having in this regard be one reason the landlords are looking for alternative tenants?

[Whiftoff]

I once read a Wooster and Stock advert which described the Windmill as ‘your local Gastro Pub’. Talk about false advertising

Agree with G-Man that is could be a really good pub and hope it doesn’t end up as another Sainsbury’s

[Eagle]

It did used to be a great deal better but never really a gastro pub.

[Tim Lund]

"What's the problem with The Windmill? "

you mean apart from it being one of the worst scuzziest pubs you're likely to walk into !

So - is there a way that could be expressed in a way a licencing committee would act on?

[caseyref]

As an fyi for everyone Sainsbury's are not planning to open a Local at The Greyhound anymore.

[Eagle]

Oh this is sad news. I guess all down to the Greyhound debacle.

That would have been a much better site than the one mentioned in the old High Street.

I trust the people that fought teeth and nail to hold onto the Greyhound at all costs are savouring their victory.

[Eagle]

Pubs get saddled with clients , which could be good or could be bad.

You only have to look at The Bird in Hand , compared to The Dartmouth Arms.

Having said this 40 years ago the rolls were reversed.

[Mr_Sheen]

Having said this 40 years ago the rolls were reversed.

Cheese and ham became ham and cheese. Innovative, I'll give them that.

[leenewham]

As an fyi for everyone Sainsbury's are not planning to open a Local at The Greyhound anymore.

Do we know this as a fact?

[Tim Lund]

"What's the problem with The Windmill? "

you mean apart from it being one of the worst scuzziest pubs you're likely to walk into !

So - is there a way that could be expressed in a way a licencing committee would act on?

since they dont have any say, as far as I'm aware, on the clientele and "entertainment" if you can call it that, then that would be a NO

Here's Lewisham's policy document on this from which

1.6 The Act sets out four main licensing objectives which the Council has a duty to promote in determining applications:

– Prevention of Crime and Disorder
– Public Safety
– Prevention of Public Nuisance
– Protection of Children from Harm

Each of the objectives is considered to be of equal importance.

15.0 Complaints Against Licensed Premises

15.1 Complaints relating to the activities carried out at licensed premises of any description will be referred to the Council’s Licensing Services. Where appropriate complainants may be encouraged to raise the complaint directly with the licensee or business concerned.

15.2 The Council where practicable will seek to facilitate mediation between applicants, relevant statutory agencies and occupiers of nearby premises, local residents groups, community or interested groups where significant issues have arisen relating to a licence application or the operations of licensed premises. The Council, where possible, will facilitate mediation through:
- Identification of potential issues for other relevant statutory agencies particularly regarding the safety and amenity of local residents.
- Negotiation of, if possible, potential conditions to reflect resolutions agreed at mediation forums.

15.3 Where mediation is not practicable or fails the Council will arrange for a hearing to review the licence or application.

15.4 This process if used will not override the right of any interested party to ask that the Council consider its valid objection or for any licence holder to decline to participate in a mediation meeting.

15.5 The Council will disregard any representations which are irrelevant, frivolous and/or vexatious.

15.6 A senior police officer may, under section 161 of the Licensing Act 2003, close a premises in the interest of public safety for up to 24 hours on the grounds of likely or imminent disorder on or in the vicinity of the premises. Premises may also be closed if a public nuisance is being caused by noise from the premises.

15.7 Additionally a review of the licence will take place within 28 days of any action by the police to close down the premises for up to 24 hours or longer if so granted by the Magistrates’ Court on the grounds of disorder or public nuisance – Annex L of the Secretary of State’s Guidance and section 167 of the Licensing Act 2003.

I've no experience of dealing with licencing issues, but this would seem the way to raise any complaints you have. Local government officers and Councillors do generally want to serve the public, although I'll admit they don't always do a good job. But you can't reasonably complain if you don't first try to deal with a problem through the proper channels.

[Moonpig]

If Sainsburys is not opening at The Greyhound anymore, what is going to open in the retail unit instead? If it stays vacant, along with a half built pub (or fully re-buit, but vacant pub) then this really won't be good

Also previous posts mentioned the hope that Sainsburys moving in may help to curb the rubbish and other problems in the new alleyway- now that they are not moving in, it looks like these problems maybe ongoing...

I would be all for the Windmill staying a pub if it upped its game and was not so dire - Kirkdale is crying out for a decent pub and it doesn't have to be gastro, just somewhere vaguely nice to go a for a pint of an evening.
Can't see this happening considering the Antic fiasco at The Greyhound, therefore bring on the Sainsburys - it may hopefully help to curb the number of other convenience stores that Sydenham has in abundance and encourage other, different shops to open instead.