Say No To T£sco

[Mr_Sheen]

My goodness - we have now seen all of the acquiescent positions that nurture organisations that cynically drive out small retailers , sell the public toxic inferior food and reduce the basic rights of working people :
- Tesco are no worse than Morrison- and?
- it's better than the current eyesore
- my personal favourite - " I don't shop in Sydenham "
There is genuine opposition to Tesco for very clear reason. I am stunned that people want to challenge and minimise this resistance to Tesco. I cannot abide these relativist , intellectual arguments . My position is clear - I will not use Tesco, I will discourage anyone who will listen from using it and I will continue to support my local shops .

Good evening
Nigel

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Wow.

Challenge? Why shouldn't people question and challenge? I am stunned you take this view of people asking questions, pointing out flaws in arguments and trying to get a clearer idea of what your protest is all about. Do you expect everyone to blindly follow you without questioning motives?
Do you feel this strongly about other unethical organisations? Do you know which tobacco companies, arms manufacturers and dodgy hedge funds your savings and pensions are invested in or because you can't see that and it's not cheapening the high street by preventing an organic candle shop from opening and making the place look nice doesn't that matter?
Barclays (which has a branch in Sydenham) does far more to screw over small businesses than Tesco ever will by selling dodgy interest rate rise protection on loans then fixing interest rates, withdrawing loans, increasing loan fees to crippling levels and sending healthy companies into administration - are you going to direct some of your anger towards them and campaign for them to close?

I was neutral on this argument but if your reaction to people who don't wholly agree with you is typical of the those campaigning against Tesco I'm beginning to change my mind.

[Nigel]

At no point do I argue with the right of others to hold differing views - I am , and I think very clearly , pointing out how many people feel the need to undermine what seems to be a majority desire to defend their high street .
I am not remotely interested in debating society buffoonery but in response to the last two posts :

The point about ethical investment etc etc - see bullet point 1 - do we save our wrath for the worst or try t resist the simply bad?

14bradford road - not trying to be cynical but the main thrust of your argument i.e. " I don't shop in Sydenham " I think was adequately captured but apologies if you think I was being selective .

I have no wish to irk, irritate or alienate but do feel that there has been a strange tendency to attack the thinking of those that simply want to resist further damage to the high street.
Good morning
Nigel

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Eagle]

Bradford

You have my sympathy . I am continually taken out of context.

Good Luck to ALL stores in Sydenham Road. God Bless them all.

[JRobinson]

Could someone from Sydenham Society please reply to this thread - Is there anything we can actually do to stop Tesco from opening a store on our high street?

I understand that we can't object just on the fact that we don't like it, and there's nothing stopping them opening in that place, planning regulations etc, I know that if planning is rejected than T£sco will probably appeal, and most councils in this situation would roll over, because if they lose the appeal, they won't be able to afford the costs - and Tesco are notorious for appealing again and again, as they can afford to pay very good lawyers. Only very occasionally has local objection actually worked and stopped a Tesco from opening. A problem I see would be Tesco opening, us succeeding in persuading a lot of people not to shop there, some people still do anyway, some shops are affected and close, we intensify our campaign, T£sco does so badly they close, and we're left with more empty retail space than we have now - this would be terrible for the high st.

[Eagle]

I have already mentioned the campaign of young Valerie Singleton in Sherbourne against Tesco Superstore ( as mentioned on BBC ).

Perhaps we need a household name as well.

[14BradfordRoad]

I have no wish to irk, irritate or alienate but do feel that there has been a strange tendency to attack the thinking of those that simply want to resist further damage to the high street.
Good morning
Nigel

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I don't believe I've attacked the thinking of other people Nigel, particuarly yourself in
any way. If wishing the campaign 'good luck' is irksome then please explain why?
You must remember that this is an open forum where issues are obviously bound to be
debated at times, It's what democracy is supposedly about unless you believe otherwise!
In the meantime and back to the OP I wish the campaign good luck!

Good morning to you too,
Brad.

[14BradfordRoad]

I think what irritates a few people is that some feel this is something we can debate! You don't mind Tesco on the high street. Good. Neither does Mr Sheen, Dick P or the guy who went on about snobs (!)

You can comment if you want but I'm curious as to why?

Hi Rod, just to satisfy your curiosity:
I have learnt much from observing and listening to both sides. I've heard it said that 'He who
sits on the fence sees both sides' which is what I have done. I'm impressed by the passion that people have for keeping Sydenham a great place to live and so I should be too as I grew up in Sydenham and really only have good wishes for the place (most of my family still live there).

There's nothing wrong with good debate as long as it's constructive which I like many others
try to be. You are bound to get debate (along with an element of humour) on a forum which
is what you have here. Many reading this thread will judge by all comments made, opinions given and make their own minds up. I'm personally very glad that many facts have been
revealed about the downside of using Tescos at all as I have previously already stated within
this thread.

Did you expect me 'not' to comment after such an invitation Rod.
BTW: I wish I could suggest a good method of action to take which is what the OP is looking
for. ..........How about some informative leaflets posted locally?

[hairybuddha]

@Jrobinson

Looks like I've missed a few pages of discussion! I need to address one particular point:

Are you, HB, a Tesco share holder? or have a vested interest in letting Tesco open a shop that is not needed or wanted at this location? You do appear to sound very much like one!

No I'm not.

Thanks for providing the links and the excerpts. This is a good base from which to build your campaign. However the links and the anecdotes do not provide the evidence that I was asking for. Namely, evidence to back up the assertion that:

any large supermarket that opens will allways take custom away from smaller local shops.

and

(always selling) cheaper than elsewhere on the high street to the eventual detriment of the local community

I am taking issue with the kind of intellectually lazy pronouncements that people are making. Are Tesco sometimes bad? Yes. Often? Maybe. Always? No, that is hyperbole and damaging your laudable campaign's credibility.

[hairybuddha]

I didn't say attacking Tesco was intellectually lazy (though perhaps not reading my posts properly is). I have said the campaign is both admirable and laudable.

However, saying that every Tesco ever built is bad for local businesses and eventually bad for the community (and sells only cancer inducing sludge) is lazy hyperbole and makes the "campaign" seem childish and lacking credibility. How could the Council or indeed Tesco engage with a campaign that makes such silly claims?

If you are going to go through with this campaign, get real and get serious.

[hairybuddha]

Rod, you're completely missing the point. Wilfully so I suspect so I'm going to stop engaging you on this topic.

Good luck with the campaign. Hopefully as it starts to come together people will step away from empty hyperbole and engage in a constructive way.

Of course I think your efforts futile and look forward to the new shop.

All the best - Consider my application for campaign manager withdrawn

[annabel mclaren]

As Biscuitman has said earlier in this thread, there are no planning policies that will help us resist the application by Tesco for a convenience store on this site. The premises currently have an A3 use class (restaurants, snack bars and cafes) and change of use to A1 (shops, retail warehouses, sandwich bars, hairdressers, undertakers, travel and ticket agencies, post offices, dry cleaners, showrooms, domestic hire shops, funeral directors, internet cafés etc) is regarded as permitted development – this was an amendment in 2005 to the existing legislation. The Sydenham Society – and others - can make comments on the proposed shopfront design (and what is proposed is unacceptable in terms of Lewisham’s shopfront policy), positioning of the ATM etc, but objecting on ‘competition’ grounds – ie that there are too many convenience stores and supermarkets in Sydenham Road - simply won’t get us anywhere.
Annabel McLaren, Chair, Sydenham Society

[JRobinson]

I think it's fair to say that not every single Tesco ever opened has been bad for the local community (at least one of them has closed down) ... however please note the following:

If a supermarket opens, it has customers - building a supermarket that didn't have customers just doesn't happen. Those customers must have shopped elsewhere previously. Depending on local circumstances, they either shopped locally at small independent stores, or at other large supermarkets (presumably further away, or less convenient) - if the first (they used to shop locally) then the new supermaket has taken trade away from local shops - Tesco shareholders get the profits from Tesco - they are not fed back and spent locally, unlike the owners of local shops who spend money locally to where they work. If customers didn't shop locally before, and used to shop at another large supermarket, then you go back a step further before that supermarket existed and ask the same question - where did they shop before? - go back far enough and everyone shopped locally, and in terms of social cohesion - people spoke to their neighbours, they knew their local shop owners, and most consider that to have been better for society.

Maybe in our situation, where there are already several nearby supermarkets, then they will only be taking custom from those, and people who shop locally will continue to shop locally, but it's very unlikely.

[Eagle]

Mr Robinson

While broadly backing your points and agenda , surely you are not correct re profits. Of course Tesco profits return to shareholders, who of course could be living anywhere, many could be local to new Tesco shops.

Surely we are only talking about a mini Tesco shop here not a hypermarket like Sainsburgs have in Lower Sydenham.
Surely you should be attacking that monster.

[dickp]

When Tescos Kirdale opened, it mean that I no longer had to suffer the "joys" of Payless for top-up shopping - both are equidistant from my home. If Payless is what you call and "independent" shop, then yes, it suffered. Big deal. I wouldn't miss it if it went under.

When Sainsburys Greyhound opens, it'll lessen the amount of times I go to do a "big" shop at Sainsburys Bell Greeen. So, to a large extent, Sainsbury's Greyhound will only be cannibalising itself.

For me, independent shops / markets etc, have only ever been weekend foodie-based "treat" territory: the permanent markets of Brixton, Spitalfields, Broadway (east London), and the ad-hoc street markets of West Norwood, Penge (Bridge House), Forest Hill and our own. They do not feature in my day-to-day purchasing.

[leenewham]

Oh please watch this, it really made me laugh (it's about Tesco in Sydenham).
http://sydenham.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9071

[Eagle]

Must admit could not work it properly but seemed to be implying some connection with Tesco and Herr Hitler.
As I said I have not seen it but if it is the case seems in especially bad taste due to Tesco's Jewish origins.

Apologies if I am not on the correct wave length as cannot view properly

[Eagle]

Unlike you Rod I do not consider Hitler a laughing matter. Will leave you to giggle over the 3rd Reich

[Manwithaview1]

Unlike you Rod I do not consider Hitler a laughing matter. Will leave you to giggle over the 3rd Reich

Are you against Hitler's policies of stopping mass immigration, reducing worker's rights etc,.

just asking...

[Eagle]

MWAV

Just who were the immigrants , you refer to, trying to enter the Third Reich in the late 30's.?

[mikej]

I am no fan of Tesco and their ilk, but I wonder if those arguing against them opening a shop in our high street are poor? One thing about Tesco is that they do offer some cheap prices, especially if you don't care about the quality.

Might you be depriving a poor person of some choice? If there were to be a choice between Lidle, Tesco, Sainsbo and the Co-op, then a poor person could contrast and compare and obtain the lowest prices for their needs selecting from 4 competitive shops. Take away the Tesco, and they only(?) have three to compare.

Or am I talking nonsense?

I'm sure several people will soon confirm that I am!!