Antic pubs have withdrawn from the Greyhound

Chris Best · Post by **Chris Best** » 5 May 2012 11:20

I have just looked up the planning applications for Sydenham and the last application for THE GREYHOUND PUBLIC HOUSE, 309-315 KIRKDALE, LONDON, SE26 4QB is Details of the construction, including facing materials, of the proposed refuse storage chambers submitted in compliance with Condition (20) of the planning permission (DC/09/72790) dated 24 May 2010 registed on the 10 April 2012.

You might be interested in looking at the landscape plans - http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/ACOLLATEDOCS/87689_1.pdf - as these show the pub and surrounds including the visitor cycle space.

I will chase the planning officers again next week for their proposals to remedy the situation including the retrospective planning application for the demolition of the side walls and interior. I know they are considering enforcement action as this building is in the Conservation Area - along with the other activity in the high street including the removal of shop fronts without planning permission.

Annie · Post by **Annie** » 5 May 2012 13:00

I think that the fact the flats are so close to the pub has diminished the look of a historical building, one that is loved by many residents of sydenham,why was this allowed to happen in the first place? why were the builders given permission to absolutely dwarf the pub? i know it had to be developed there but it could have been done more sympathetically surely?

It's a bit like the roundabout--thats crap as well,why are these things allowed to go ahead?
I hate the roundabout-who took away the flowers and gave us a wobble?

I just hope the redevelopement of Sydenham is as good as promised.

gillyjp · Post by **gillyjp** » 5 May 2012 15:27

In response to your question Annie about how this was allowed to happen - believe me as residents who were going to be most affected by this development we did try and voice our concerns about the height of the flats which would greatly overshadow the Greyhound. Please see below a direct quote from simono's post on 8/4/09. What a shame nobody listened. We pointed this out on many ocassions about how ridiculous this would look but our concerns were dismissed as NIMBY protests.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there are higher buildings around. But what do they overlook? In any case the Cobbs building is hardly the monolithic structure you will see here. And even if the Greyhound building is retained you will hardly notice it under the oppresive weight of these flats.
So don't be frightened into thinking this is take it or leave it time. That is not true. Rather it is a time to hold our nerve, think of everyone involved and get a development we can truely be proud of in Sydenham.
simono Posts: 57Joined: 12 Apr 2006 15:22Location: Sydenham

gillyjp · Post by **gillyjp** » 5 May 2012 15:37

Also my view, for what it's worth, is why throw good money after bad - knock the remaining few bricks down (which lets face it is what remains of the original Greyhound building). Build a small square with a green, perhaps a water feature and some flower beds and seats. Of course that will never happen - there is no money to be made from that solution - just a rather lovely entrance at the Sydenham Gateway.

Annie · Post by **Annie** » 5 May 2012 15:47

I also voiced my concern at the time,
but thought the planning permission would only be granted on the proviso that the pub would remain (I thought) a prominent building,it has been allowed to be completely dwarfed.

Your idea is not a bad one, and if the pub does get pulled down altogether then it would get my vote.

I still cannot see how it will ever blend in with the flats, although in my mind it should have been the other way round!

Still you never know, I await to see what the council do/if anything!

marymck · Post by **marymck** » 5 May 2012 15:54

(Hopefully) you will find below a link to Purelake's website, showing an image of what (I think) we were expecting to see.

http://www.purelake.co.uk/projects.php? ... le_type=81

But I may be wrong - it's been very hard to keep up with all the changes. Certainly this image is still what's being advertised on Purelake's website today.

PS I've just tried the link and it almost works - you just need to also click on the picture that includes Cobbs Corner.

Annie · Post by **Annie** » 5 May 2012 16:05

Thanks Mary, I have seen what it is going to be like already.

We shall see.

marymck · Post by **marymck** » 5 May 2012 16:18

Sadly Annie I think the picture on the link is what we were expecting to see, rather than what we actually will see.

I find it very, very sad and I do hope Chris is successful in her efforts to chivvy the planning and enforcement departments into action.

Annie · Post by **Annie** » 5 May 2012 17:30

The only way they could make it any better is to take off the top floor or two of the flats,
and they wont do that.

ALIB · Post by **ALIB** » 10 May 2012 13:52

Good News,

The situation seems to be rapidly improving. I walked past the site today and peeked through the screening, to see that work on the construction of the new basement was well under way.
Obviously, the pub is still remaining (once it is rebuilt) and everyone benefits.

sydenhamboy · Post by **sydenhamboy** » 12 May 2012 11:57

let's stay positive. I actually think the flats look alright. A nice bar could really kick-start things. I was in the new 'upcycled' refurbed Post Office Sylvan pub thing in forest hill on Weds and it was packed .. on a Wednesday. In a recession. Plus the food was great. There clearly is a need for 'cool' (hate that word but you know what I mean) boozers and whoever takes over the Greyhound and does it properly will make a killing.

G-Man · Post by **G-Man** » 13 May 2012 08:29

Here here Sydenhamboy.

It has been mentioned that a pub operator had taken it over, and I've said it a few times and will say it again...

ANY IDEAS WHO THE PUB OPERATOR IS?

G-man

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cockneyrebel · Post by **cockneyrebel** » 9 Jun 2012 12:56

Antic have told me they are still in negotiations so fingers crossed. Anyone who can should contact them to say we want an Antic pub on Sydenham.

Any update on the Greyhound?

Also in the artists impression the flats were clad in white. Will this still happen? Might take the edge of it looking like a prison block.

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dickp · Post by **dickp** » 10 Jun 2012 13:49

Just seen a planning request from 15 May to turn the upper floor of the Greyhound into residential use. (DC/12/80236/X). I though this issue had been resolved...

The good news, however, is that the same planning request also includes a plan to put a conservatory on the side of the building. So perhaps the footprint of the pub space won't actually change.

gillyjp · Post by **gillyjp** » 10 Jun 2012 19:30

cockneyrebel wrote:Antic have told me they are still in negotiations so fingers crossed. Anyone who can should contact them to say we want an Antic pub on Sydenham.

Any update on the Greyhound?

Also in the artists impression the flats were clad in white. Will this still happen? Might take the edge of it looking like a prison block.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Sorry Cockneyrebel but I cant agree with your comment about this building being clad in white would be better than brick. The one thing we were dreading (as immediate neighbours) was a monolithic white monstrosity. One of the newer blocks near Dartmouth Rd has been painted a rather revolting yellow and just looks tacky.

We were rather pleased when we saw the brickwork they had decided on and it does look a good quality build as befits the 'Sydenham Gateway'. By continous objections raised with Lewisham Council we did manage to get the original count of 70+ flats down to 44 which is more appropriate for that development site. If people are voicing concerns about the Greyhound being dwarfed by the flats now, then can you imagine how it would have looked with 70 + flats towering over it?

As immediate neighbours we definitely do not want a white clad building reminiscent of a 60's mini tower block. Awful.

biscuitman1978 · Post by **biscuitman1978** » 10 Jun 2012 20:40

Thanks for the updates, cockneyrebel and dickp.

cockneyrebel wrote:Antic have told me they are still in negotiations so fingers crossed.

Do you mean still in negotiations on the Greyhound or still in negotations on the unnamed location elsewhere in Sydenham?

dickp wrote:Just seen a planning request from 15 May to turn the upper floor of the Greyhound into residential use. (DC/12/80236/X). I though this issue had been resolved...

The good news, however, is that the same planning request also includes a plan to put a conservatory on the side of the building. So perhaps the footprint of the pub space won't actually change.

That might explain why work on the Greyhound has stalled over the last couple of weeks after initial progress with the basement.

In principle I'm happy with the upper floor being used for flats, provided that sufficient space is provided to run a viable business at basement and ground floor level. A conservatory, together with the extended basement also referred to in the planning application, might well provide that space.

In addition, a well-designed conservatory could be a good addition, helping to add some life to the high street, as people outside the pub will be able to see people in it.

The planning application documentation hasn't been uploaded yet, but I'll keep an eye out for it.

perryman · Post by **perryman** » 10 Jun 2012 21:41

Things are looking UP!!

leenewham · Post by **leenewham** » 11 Jun 2012 00:03

I haven't seen any planning application for the mural on the back wall yet either which is troubling!

cockneyrebel · Post by **cockneyrebel** » 11 Jun 2012 07:19

I guess cladding or not is a matter of taste. Personally I think the current design is awful, it looks like a featureless prison block, worse than even the minimal effort they have made in buildings in Milton Keynes. The original artists impression wasn't brick work so why the change? There is a small block on newlands park road which had some cladding which looks far better. As a "gateway" I can't think of anything more bland and souless.

In terms of Antic they are negotiating for another place in Sydenham, not the Greyhound. A bit worrying it's been going on for so long though.

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biscuitman1978 · Post by **biscuitman1978** » 15 Jun 2012 23:21

dickp wrote:Just seen a planning request from 15 May to turn the upper floor of the Greyhound into residential use. (DC/12/80236/X). I though this issue had been resolved...

I spoke to a planning officer about this application today, as I was surprised that the application was shown on the Council's website as registered a month ago but no documents had appeared online. After speaking to his colleagues the officer told me that the application is currently invalid, pending receipt of further supporting information. Watch this space...

In the meantime, keen Greyhound watchers might be interested in various other applications, including:

- DC/12/80360/FT, an application for discharge of conditions, which proposes that the ground floor commercial units will be serviced from the layby proposed outside 319 Sydenham Road as part of the Sydenham high street regeneration works

- DC/12/80269/X, an application for advertisement consent (in this case erection of signage), most interesting because it indicates that Sainsbury's will take the unit behind the Greyhound pub building (as well as install an ATM on the corner of the unit adjacent to the road, which is the subject of application DC/12/80258/X)

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