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[Rachael]

Well they are there folks, and I think they are quite charming. Grow to like them or feel bitterness churning in your gut as you drive past each time - your choice. Life's too short.

Will you feel the same when the mosaic goes up?

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[Annie]

How did the planning permission for the"pear trees" get passed?
I know its too late to object now, but I thought the last plans I saw were the ones with the landscaped garden? I'm amazed that it wasnt flagged up by someone.

[Voyageur]

Well they are there folks, and I think they are quite charming. Grow to like them or feel bitterness churning in your gut as you drive past each time - your choice. Life's too short.

Will you feel the same when the mosaic goes up?



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I think that the mosaic plans look absolutely fine

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[Tim Lund]

I think Voyageur's point of view is as valid as anyone's. I'm not sure that I share it, but I'm not great on contemporary art anyway - so I recognise that other's can have equally valid points of view, and even that something I don't like initially may grow on me. But it's not fair to say that people who don't like this sculpture, or even the mosaic are bitter and twisted - there are plenty of good things about Sydenham which we're happy to celebrate. Of course on a forum such as this where people are allowed to say what they think you get a fair amount of knocking, but doesn't a free press tend to be like that?

[Tim Lund]

I too feel the same Fairlawner and Lee.
...
Why are the Sydenham Society and our councillors campaigning and what is Penge's councillor doing that is so different?
...

Did you mean something like "Why are the Sydenham Society and our councillors not campaigning about this, and what is Penge's councillor doing that is so different?"

There's an immediate rather flippant response to this, which is that the Sydenham Society currently sees stopping developments such as Wooster and Stock taking over the Woodman as more important. More seriously, this development needs to be understood in the context of Lewisham having to get more houses / flats build. A developer - a housing association in this case - may come up with some nice plans, with attractive planting, but when the budget starts to look tight, ways to cut costs will be looked for, and the Council will not want to kick up a fuss.

And behind this are the sometimes disputed reasons why enough houses haven't been build, not only in Lewisham, but across London. For more on this see this recent post of mine on Whitehall, City Hall, Localism and The Renaissance of Bogotà and also this one "Campaigning for Ken" This last was prompted by seeing something on a local councillor's Facebook, so may give an answer to what they are doing with themselves.

As to what the Penge councillor is doing which is different - well, like Lee, I know the guy and respect him. I'm not sure, however, that he'll thank me for suggesting that the difference is that he is a Labour Councillor in a generally Tory Borough, so does not prioritise Borough wide plans over doing what's best for his own ward.

[umbrella]

I live fairly close to the new sculptures and have to say I'm not a huge fan, maybe they'll grow on me. Cynically I'm not surprised the artist remains unnamed, to me the sculpture really lacks much beauty. Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of much modern art and even the most brutalist architecture can have beauty.

What would have been nice would have been some trees, will there be any along with the sculptures? I'm sure the new residents of those flats might appreciate some leafy trees that would rustle in the wind, cut down a bit of the traffic noise and block some of the view of the road.

[marymck]

There's an immediate rather flippant response to this, which is that the Sydenham Society currently sees stopping developments such as Wooster and Stock taking over the Woodman as more important.

Oh Tim not another pop at the Sydenham Society please. Can I just remind forum users that although you weren't Chair through the terribly complex and long drawn out negotiations about the Bell Green site, you were Chair when some of the many amendments were lodged. Obviously, most of the hard slog was put in by other Society members, long before you and I got involved. My excuse for missing the information about the "pear trees" is that I was away for a couple of months, looking after my mother who was recovering from surgery. We all have our lives to lead.

So you're very wrong (and deliberately baiting?) about attitudes to the (IMO) horrible changes happening to The Woodman and that "The Sydenham Society" views this as more important than the Bell Green development. Much, much, much more time was spent by volunteer members of the Sydenham Society over the various incarnations of the Bell Green development than The Woodman development.

I'd also like to point out, yet again, that "The Sydenham Society" consists of members of the community. Members of the community all have their own views and if some of us live on Kirkdale and therefore care about what's happening on our doorsteps, then I don't think anyone should be surprised about that. But I for one have spent very little time proportionately on The Woodman or other Kirkdale plans. Most of my time as a Sydenham Society volunteer has been spent on items on other people's doorsteps, where we've been asked to help.

Please note: this is my own personal posting and is not posted on behalf of "The Sydehham Society" and I'd much rather be writing Christmas cards.

[Voyageur]

I love the way someone takes something you write and turns it into something else - bitter and twisted.... really

My point was that if something lands in your vicinity as an installation, if you can learn to appreciate it in part then that assists your quality of life to a small degree. If you can't then I guess you can divert to avoid it.

I remember thinking that the National Sports Centre in CP Park was ugly when I first clocked it, but over the last 25 years I have grown to love it. I also thought the stage at the CP Park bowl was ugly when I first saw it, but I have now grown rather fond of the 'rusty lap top'. Here is a bit of fun a prankster on Virtual Norwood has had:

[JulietP]

I remember thinking that the National Sports Centre in CP Park was ugly when I first clocked it, but over the last 25 years I have grown to love it. I also thought the stage at the CP Park bowl was ugly when I first saw it, but I have now grown rather fond of the 'rusty lap top'. Here is a bit of fun a prankster on Virtual Norwood has had:

Is it really a stage? My boyfriend and I couldn't work it out - how do the performers get onto the stage?

[Voyageur]

I remember thinking that the National Sports Centre in CP Park was ugly when I first clocked it, but over the last 25 years I have grown to love it. I also thought the stage at the CP Park bowl was ugly when I first saw it, but I have now grown rather fond of the 'rusty lap top'. Here is a bit of fun a prankster on Virtual Norwood has had:

Is it really a stage? My boyfriend and I couldn't work it out - how do the performers get onto the stage?

It is indeed, and I have seen performances on it. Here's a side view (nb, it was designed to rust to a golden red colour apparently to blend in in the Autumn!



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[Tim Lund]

Well, I like the witty take from Virtual Norwood, but I'm not reconciled to the original ... call me old fashioned, but I just don't like that sort of brutalism. But I know others have other views ...

[Voyageur]

Well, I like the witty take from Virtual Norwood, but I'm not reconciled to the original ... call me old fashioned, but I just don't like that sort of brutalism. But I know others have other views ...

It is indeed ugly! (but I have grown fond of it over the years, and the roof is a lovely colour sometimes when caught by the sun).

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