Theft on the High Street

[The Clown]

I just witnessed one of the female friends of the street drinking crew, shoplifting, getting caught and then getting ejected from Superdrug.
She had been seen peeling the security tag off a mascara and eventually gave up a number of items and ran off. It was very difficult for the security guard as they have to be careful about restraining people.
She crossed the road and went up to Your Move and then spoke to one of the drinkers and then started reaching in to take her other "booty" from out of her jacket.
She seemed to think that the security guard was in the wrong.
What a sad state of affairs.

[Eagle]

Surely security guards can restrain persons if they suspect them of theft ?
Otherwise why go to the expense of paying the security guards.

[diskocheddar]

I didn't realise the street drinking crew were a permanent fixture these days. Is England the only country in the world where it's legal to drink in public?

[bensonby]

Surely security guards can restrain persons if they suspect them of theft ?
Otherwise why go to the expense of paying the security guards.

Of course they can.

The relevant pieces of law that allow them to do this are s.24(a) of the Police And Criminal Evidence Act 1984 and s.3 of the Criminal Law Act 1967.

Not that anyone is particularly interested.

[multisync]

The "drinking crew" seem to have the run of the high street.Yesterday, wason the 202 bus,the tall drinker with glasses got on with a bit of an iffy bus pass.whilst he flashed that at the bus driver,the one with the tatooed face and one of his comrades got on the back of the bus and proceeded to drink from a can{it wasn't pepsi] bus driver just chose to ignore it.
They should be stopped from congreating on the high street

[bigbadwolf]

They should be stopped from congreating on the high street

Er, but what about the street drinkers' human rights, multisync? You do realise that in preventing them from being the obnoxious bunch of w_nkers that they are, you run the risk of deeply, deeply offending them?

[multisync]

They are basically a blot on the landscape and very jarring.

[bigbadwolf]

They are basically a blot on the landscape and very jarring.

I'll see you in court!

[CaptainCarCrash]

The undeserving poor?

There has always been a problem with the underclass, where is the solution? how do you solve something such as scary looking street drinkers with tatooed faces, stinky cloths, rotten teeth, poor execution of the english language, the inablility to function within so called normal paramaters, they have serious addictions and mental health problems and are more than likely victims so should they be dehumanised because they aren't materialistic capitalist lemmings?

Let's not focus on the obvious here, the fact they look intimidating and accost people for money to buy drugs, drink, and cigaretts isn't important.

If you forcibly remove them from congregating in the high street where do you send them? and how do you do it without breaching their human rights or using draconian measures?

It's bordering on right wing bullshit.

[maria7]

You solve these problems with love, understanding, time, compassion and strictness too, theft is wrong but it is necessary to understand why people do it!!

[bigbadwolf]

Mike & Maria7, have you two been at the aeroplane glue, or what?

how do you solve something such as scary looking street drinkers with tatooed faces, stinky cloths, rotten teeth, poor execution of the english language, the inablility to function within so called normal paramaters

Landfill?

I jest, of course (well, sort of).

Seriously, though, there's a very obvious difference between those who are vulnerable and genuinely need help i.e - the elderly homeless aswell as the mentally and physically handicapped/impaired, and those that have full control of their faculties (I mean, they can't be that touched in the head that they know how to effectively evade retail security measures), enjoy getting pissed and stoned all day in public, not to mention expecting everyone else to pay for it (indirectly or otherwise), and in certain cases make themselves unattractive applicants for work, knowingly i.e - having half your face obscured by a rather unsubtle tattoo.

Not "rightwing bullshit", but stark staring reality.

[CaptainCarCrash]

I know what you're saying bbw and I agree, these people are unemployable, have criminal records and are pretty much if not complete failures. No amount of help can help these people because they choose that lifestyle because they like it.

What are the Police doing/saying about the situation?

I'm not trying to defend them but pointing out their obvious short commings doesn't really help.

I think that unless the police can ban them and serve some kind of ASBO which incidently are being revised by the govt, you can't stop the freedom of movement. If they were causing trouble and being violent towards the public and the police then they would surely be dealt with through the courts.

It's a problem that can't be solved imo.

You just have to get the Police to put pressure on them.

[Robin Orton]

Not "rightwing bullshit", but stark staring reality.

Or, alternatively, intolerance, snobbery and meanness of spirit.

[bigbadwolf]

Or, alternatively, intolerance, snobbery and meanness of spirit.

Isn't that how your pedantry on Se23.com has been recieved of late, Fr Orton?

I'm sorry, but whichever way you spin it, that fact still remains that these street drinkers are in possession of their faculties. I've known two alcoholics in my lifetime, and as poor and lonely as they were, neither of them saw the need to harrass the public and be the source of anxiety while out of their heads.

[Robin Orton]

I've known two alcoholics in my lifetime...

Ah, an expert then.

...and as poor and lonely as they were, neither of them saw the need to harrass the public and be the source of anxiety while out of their heads

Well, I guess that clinches it.

[CaptainCarCrash]

I understand your point BBW, but you're missing the bigger picture, mental illness does not mean that the sufferer has absolutely zero control and should be straight jacketed, in a lot of cases quite the opposite. A lot of these people have nothing, no future prospects and are pretty much in the gutter, they go in and out of rehab to try and break their addictions but relapse for what ever reason, their families "If they have one that is" turn their backs on them because of the pain caused by watching their kids destroy themselves with junk is intolerable, their only home is the street where they find solace and acceptance through others in the same disposition. Its almost a road of no return for them but its a never ending cycle that is repeated constantly.

It is a sad and tragic waste of life.

[CaptainCarCrash]

Or, alternatively, intolerance, snobbery and meanness of spirit.

Isn't that how your pedantry on Se23.com has been recieved of late, Fr Orton?

I'm sorry, but whichever way you spin it, that fact still remains that these street drinkers are in possession of their faculties. I've known two alcoholics in my lifetime, and as poor and lonely as they were, neither of them saw the need to harrass the public and be the source of anxiety while out of their heads.

That's down to him having an English O level bbw.

There is a lot more to it that what you're seeing on the surface bbw and that's why it's such a big problem.

[bensonby]

What are the Police doing/saying about the situation?

....

I think that unless the police can ban them and serve some kind of ASBO

....

If they were causing trouble and being violent towards the public and the police then they would surely be dealt with through the courts.

What can the police do? The function of the police, once offenders have been caught etc, is to put them before courts for conviction and punishment. As has been alluded to, many of these sortsof people have offending histories longer than my arm - and they have many convictions. The police, therefore, have done their job - they've got them in front of teh cuort and presented enough evidenec to get them convicted. It's just whatever punishment meted out hasn't had the effect of stopping their recidivism.

Many of these "type" of people (I don't know about the specifics of the Sydenham "characters") also have ASBOs etc. Many often get arrested for breaches too - but the whole exercise seems rather pointless when they are back on the street again the following afternoon.

Is England the only country in the world where it's legal to drink in public?

Why shouldn't it be allowed? Why shouldn't I, an adult, be allowed to walk down the road with a glass of sherry if I so please?

[syd]

I had a drinker shout out to me I ignored him and he ran up to me almost demanding money in a quite threatening way. I told him to sod off but it wasn't nice. It's the reason I avoid the high st now and do my shopping online.

I feel that there are some positive changes like 140 interiors but further up the hill it seems to be getting rougher. Or is it me?

[Chris Best]

Please along and share your views at the next Sydenham Assembly – June Al Malah from Lewisham’s Neighbourhood Community Safety Service is talking about the Problem Solving Plan (PSP) around street drinkers/drug users. The PSP aims to:

• Reduce anti social behaviour, crime and the fear of crime.
• Make a safe and pleasant environment for local residents, traders and shoppers.

The partners involved in this plan include the Safer Neighbourhood Team, LBL Planning and Licensing, Local Traders, London Fire, Drugs & Alcohol Action Team, Lewisham Businesses Against Crime.

The police have been working on enforcing the Controlled Drinking Zone (technically the Designed Public Place Order) and the latest stats I have are:

16 Section 27 Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 notices
28 Section 12 Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 warnings
3 arrests

Street drinking is an issue for many areas and having talked to the traders in our high street there are real concerns with the amount of theft. We want a thriving high street not one where residents are intimidated by anti social behaviour.