Perry Vale Ward, Land of the Free

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Tim Lund
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008 18:10
Location: Silverdale

Perry Vale Ward, Land of the Free

Post by Tim Lund »

Concern has been expressed at previous meetings [of the Perry Vale Ward Assembly] in relation to whether only those who live, work and study in each ward should be eligible to vote on allocation of both the mayors fund and, presumably also the localities fund.

The resident who asked me to raise the subject again, said that maybe the mayor should be the one to take this decision ?
This is very odd - if there is to be voting at a local Assembly, surely it is right to limit voting to local people? And even if allowing the vote at a meeting to include any number of outsiders who turn up might seem better to other wards' co-ordinator groups, some of the key ideas behind the Local Assemblies were flexibility and local empowerment.
Local Assemblies Implementation Guide, 2007 wrote:1.
Structures (‘How will local assemblies work?’)

General

1.1.
The proposals for local assemblies emerged from the Mayor’s Commission on Empowering Communities and Neighbourhoods. Changes to the Council’s constitution required to implement the proposals were agreed by the Constitution Working Party on 7 June and full Council on 27 June and the implementation plan endorsed by Mayor and Cabinet on 17 July.

1.2.
The approach has been to adopt flexible arrangements that can be adapted to suit different circumstances, minimise bureaucracy and create opportunities for innovation. This paper describes the guiding principles and outlines the practical arrangements needed to implement local assemblies across Lewisham.
So hardly something to trouble the Mayor about.

On the other hand, this is pretty well what the decision makers for the Sydenham Assembly did decide.
Sydenham Ward Charter wrote:4
The Coordinating Group have agreed that proposals for the Mayor’s Fund should receive the support of 51% of those voting on the proposal. Where there are more bids than monies available the proposal(s) with the fewest votes will be eliminated. The outcome of the various stages of the funding process should be reported back to the next Assembly meeting. The Coordinating Group have agreed that groups applying for funding that do not receive the 51% threshold cannot apply for funding again within the current financial year unless the project changes what it is bidding for. The Coordinating Group have agreed that voting at the Assembly meetings should be by paper ballot with a straight yes or no to reach the 51% threshold. Voting will only be by those present at the Assembly meeting and over 14 yrs of age
But maybe the problem is just that Perry Vale Ward won't take the lead of its Sydenham senior sisters.

The whole business of the 51% threshold is also odd. Possibly because there just aren't that many ideas around for how to use this public money in Sydenham, or because the co-ordinators' group, led by Chris Best, in practice stop looking for projects as soon as the bids come to the total available, it now never happens that there are more bids than monies available, so proposals with the fewest votes do not get eliminated. Unless the co-ordinators put forward something bad enough that 50% of those attending will actually be mean enough to say they don't like, the voting amounts to nothing more than rubber-stamping.

The Perry Vale co-ordinators' group alternative is to make more of an effort to find worthwhile local causes, and present local people attending its assemblies a real choice. If there are say eight projects, eligible voters rank the projects 1 to 8, the rankings are added up, and the ones people most want get funded, and the next most popular project whose bid would take the total allocated over what is available, just gets the balance.

Welcome to Perry Vale Ward, Land of the Free, and transparent local democracy!
leenewham
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Re: Perry Vale Ward, Land of the Free

Post by leenewham »

Tim Lund wrote:

The whole business of the 51% threshold is also odd. Possibly because there just aren't that many ideas around for how to use this public money in Sydenham, or because the co-ordinators' group, led by Chris Best, in practice stop looking for projects as soon as the bids come to the total available, it now never happens that there are more bids than monies available, so proposals with the fewest votes do not get eliminated. Unless the co-ordinators put forward something bad enough that 50% of those attending will actually be mean enough to say they don't like, the voting amounts to nothing more than rubber-stamping.

The Perry Vale co-ordinators' group alternative is to make more of an effort to find worthwhile local causes, and present local people attending its assemblies a real choice. If there are say eight projects, eligible voters rank the projects 1 to 8, the rankings are added up, and the ones people most want get funded, and the next most popular project whose bid would take the total allocated over what is available, just gets the balance.
I always thought that the 51% was just to rubber stamp the proposals. I know it's not the case in every assembly, but in the ones I have been to there has been enough money for every proposal and it was the point of the 60-100 people who attend the assembly to decide if it was a suitable proposal for spending our taxes on it.

There have been some great proposals and some not so good ones (how far away are we from getting the mosaic finished or even getting the Naborhood centre painted and the windows done up, has the £10,000 of public money already been spent?). From the people I have spoken to the attitude seems to be that if the money is there then lets vote for every proposal so they all get the funding. Nothing wrong in that, but the Perry Vale proposal sounds interesting.

Regarding Tims point about keeping the assemblies local so only local people can vote, does this mean that we have to stop 'outsiders' from attending or do we have a stricter voting scheme? What happens on Sydenham Ward affects Perry Vale members too, I feel, personally, that it should be open as it is so interested parties can vote irrespective of some line drawn up on a map with a ruler to define voting boundaries. I don't think they have any Jurisdiction when it comes to wanting to make a difference to the place in which you live.
Tim Lund
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008 18:10
Location: Silverdale

Re: Perry Vale Ward, Land of the Free

Post by Tim Lund »

leenewham wrote:Regarding Tims point about keeping the assemblies local so only local people can vote, does this mean that we have to stop 'outsiders' from attending or do we have a stricter voting scheme? What happens on Sydenham Ward affects Perry Vale members too, I feel, personally, that it should be open as it is so interested parties can vote irrespective of some line drawn up on a map with a ruler to define voting boundaries. I don't think they have any Jurisdiction when it comes to wanting to make a difference to the place in which you live.
If you're just saying boundaries are arbitrary, well, yes, but I still think they mean something. In any case, there is scope for discussion about what is best.

In fact, I think the voting for Localities and Mayor's fund money at Assemblies may be a mistake, because, inevitably, it gets in the way of all the other things what Councillors and officers could be talking about at such meetings. It's the point I made in the recent "Lewisham Life is getting Scarcer" thread, and which Mummycat expressed more fully in her contribution http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic. ... 916#p46208

But going after funding is something which will motivate people to attend meetings, so in a future reworking of Local Assemblies, I'd have a regular slot for 'community funding updates', flagging up opportunities such as this I got an email about recently from Voluntary Action Lewisham
Volunteer Centre Lewisham wrote:23 Mar 2011

See below information about additional funding for Grassroots grants.
Even if you have received £5000 already you may be able to apply. Read information below.

I CANNOT ANSWER ANY QUESIONS ABOUT THIS FUNDING - IF YOU NEED TALK TO THE FUNDERS DIRECTLY.

Grassroots Grants - Additional Funding Programme

Purpose
Following on from the success of the Grassroots Grants programme the Office for Civil Society has decided to make additional funding available in line with ministerial priorities. Grassroots Grants helps to build thriving local communities, bring people from different backgrounds together and empower them to achieve change in their communities. If you are a local voluntary or community group with a good idea, this grant fund may be able to help. You can apply for up to £5,000.

Areas
Greenwich, Kensington and Chelsea, Lewisham, Southwark, Westminster

Income Threshold
Under £30,000 per annum

Closing dates
The closing date for applications is Friday 8th April 2011. Applications must be received by 5pm.
Awards will be made in late May 2011 and all funds must be spent by 30th September 2011.

Forms
Grassroots additional funds application form Grassroots additional fund guidance notes

Notes

...

Details taken from The Capital Community Foundation Website
http://www.capitalcf.org.uk/grants/gran ... .php?id=22
Apart from anything else, it would mean that another group of Council staff - in the Local Assemblies team - were not also responsible for monitoring how money voted on is spent, with all the admin overheads that brings with it.

I also think this business about Local Assembly charters could be quietly dropped, so save a bit of officer time and expense.
LewishamCouncil
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Location: SE6 4RU

Re: Perry Vale Ward, Land of the Free

Post by LewishamCouncil »

The Local Assemblies programme was designed to allow localities flexibility to shape the way their assembly operated in order to reflect the needs and views of each ward. The fact that Sydenham and Perry Vale Assemblies have adopted slightly different voting procedures is a product of this flexibility and both systems are equally valid.

Although there are differences in approach one thing that the two assemblies have in common is that they are both strong, active forums that have brought people from a variety of backgrounds together to debate and find solutions for local issues, driven by local residents with the energy and commitment to make things happen.

To set the record straight on one issue raised by Tim, Sydenham Assembly has an open process for the allocation of their funds, posters advertising the process can currently be seen in the town centre notice boards, Naborhood Centre, Kirkdale Bookshop and Well Being and details are on the Lewisham Council website http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/CouncilAndDe ... mAssembly/
The deadline for proposals is 19th April 2011.
Liz Dart
Head of Community & Neighbourhood Development
Tim Lund
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008 18:10
Location: Silverdale

Re: Perry Vale Ward, Land of the Free

Post by Tim Lund »

Thanks for this Liz.

Here is an open proposal not just for Sydenham Ward co-ordinators, but also for Perry Vale - where as a member of the co-ordinating group I will raise it - Bellingham, Forest Hill, Crofton Park and Brockley. In fact all of Lewisham, if you want.

As you know, I was recently sent a copy of a traders' database as maintained by Julie Sutch in her role as Town Centre Manager for West Lewisham. It was handed to a member of your team, who forwarded it to me since I have previously worked on a project funded by the Sydenham localities fund to extend such data, and I have since forwarded it to Jonathan Kaufman of the Sydenham Arts Festival, who I know has a particular need for details of property owners of empty premises where events might take place in this year's Festival.

The database is maintained as an Excel spreadsheet, and contains details of c. 700 retail properties in Sydenham, Forest Hill, Honor Oak and Brockley, with details of freehold owners for a small fraction of these. The cost of a Land Registry search for property owners is I believe £3, so I would like to propose the expenditure of this amount for those properties where this information is not already established, at a cost which could be distributed among the Wards of less than £2,000. This amount could certainly be found from the localities funds of the wards involved, although I think there might also be a case for it being funded by the Economic & Regeneration budget.

Having got such data together, the real challenge would come, i.e. to ensure that it would be maintained and publicised. Clearly this would require people, organised in one way or another, but I think before that, it would require some principles. The key principle should be that such public domain data should be made freely available to any individual or organisation who will similarly commit to providing freely any updates they have for the same data.

To make this work, we would have to be able to say what is public domain information, and to define what "making freely available" meant in practice. I don't think either of these would be difficult - most of the data in this spreadsheet clearly is public domain, and where there is doubt, we could initially err on the side of caution. Similarly, definitions of making data freely available are available in the context of the FOI Act, and something similar could apply, e.g. provide a copy of the data in the format which is most convenient for the holder of the data, within a period of say 14 days of a request for it. The format which is most convenient might range from a hard copy print out with non public data redacted out, to web service at the other end of the technological spectrum.

Having such a principle in place would provide the opportunities for any individuals or groups to provide the ultimate well maintained public service we want, since anyone using and updating this data would be forced to pass back any updates they make to the data supplied by others. In particular, it would create an opportunity for an individual or organisation to specialise in providing the most up to date data set available, in the format most convenient to the public. As an example of the sort of front end an web developer might produce, here is - prototype only - something being worked by the Sydenham & Forest Hill Youth Forum http://beta.sfhyouthforum.org.uk/

As such, the project I suggest would not need a detailed working out of who would use the information and how - just the organisation or individuals - quite possibly volunteers - to build up the data in the first place. However, the database built up would in no sense belong to whoever worked on it initially any more than data such as I have already supplied to the Sydenham Arts Ferstival belongs to them.

In case this is not obvious:
  • Many more public domain data sets could be included - e.g. the venues mocked up on my own web site here http://lund.co.uk/?p=73
  • this line of thought is inspired by the open source principle in software development, thanks to which you and others read this Forum
summerbreeze
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Location: Sydenham

Re: Perry Vale Ward, Land of the Free

Post by summerbreeze »

As someone who ventured to their first ward assembly meeting after conversations on the phone submitted a propsal beforehand and invited to attend I for one found the whole system very confusing and to be honest gave up trying to get local goverment support.
We have not been contacted since, I feel it was a complete waste of our time and effort.
I work voluntary for a local charity community club that has 500+ members that live within all the wards within lewisham, we have got more joy from Grant funded organisations. I was completely put off attending another meeting. Which is a shame that we feel unsupported locally for the work we do within the borough, we have done it all alone with 37 volunteers and a members datadase ranging from 6 years to 80 years +
You have to know how the system works to be able to use it, it seems.
Our propsal wasn't even heard at the meeting when others were, one of which was even asking to be paid to orgainse an event.
The balance seems a little unjust to me.
Tim Lund
Posts: 6718
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 18:10
Location: Silverdale

Re: Perry Vale Ward, Land of the Free

Post by Tim Lund »

Perry Vale Ward coordinators met last night to finalise arrangements for the Assembly meeting next Thursday evening, 19th May, half hour earlier than usual at 7.00pm, this time in Forest Hill School, Dacres Road. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... ,4.57,,0,0

There'll be voting on eight bids asking for a total of £34,244 from a total of £24,550 available

The voting format will remain the same with the ranking system being used again. Once again Voting Cards will be issued upon sign-in so that we can help to ensure that only people who live, work or learn in Perry Vale can vote. Voters must be aged 14 or over.

The bids are:
  • Green Peas UK / Grow Mayow
  • 'Spade to plate' - 35 weeks of gardening workshops
  • £4,930.00
  • Lewisham Thunder Basketball Club
  • 38 weeks of basketball sessions for the community at all ages and levels
  • £8,800.00
  • SENIORS (Lewisham Elders Resource Centre)
  • Saturday Knowledge Interchange Project [SKIP] - 24 weeks of intergenerational activity and learning based workshops.
  • £2,950.00
  • FH School – Specialist School in Performing Arts
  • It Kickz - 2 year music education programme
  • £8,342.00
  • Perry Vale Ward Panel / Farren Road Neighbourhood Watch
  • Security Mirror, Trilby Road alleyway
  • £350.00
  • Sydenham Arts Festival
  • July 13th Mayow Park film show
  • £1,552.00
  • Teachsport
  • Course for 20 local volunteers and young people leading to UK Leaders qualification
  • £2,920.00
  • Sydenham Garden
  • A range of activites to be undertaken by award winning local charity supporting people with long terms health needs
  • £4,400.00
Each applicant will have 3 minutes to present their project, with a further 2 minutes allocated for questions.

Apart from this, the running order will be:
  • Welcome and introductions 7pm – 7.10pm
  • Assembly Fund applications 7.10 – 7.50pm
  • Break
  • SNT Update 8pm – 8.10pm
  • Road Safety Report, Perry Vale and Perry Rise 8.10pm – 8.30pm
  • Kirkdale Centre Consultation 8.30pm – 8.40pm
  • Community Updates 8.40 – 8.50pm
  • Results of Assembly Fund Vote and Closing address 8-50 – 9pm
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