Do you have any views on local buses?

[nasaroc]

TFL are currently asking locals for their views on bus services in the borough.

Do you have any views which might include new or increased frequency of buses or complaints about particular routes or ideas which would improve integration with other modes of transport.

I am happy to summarise any reasonable suggestions and write back with your views to TFL. Deadline for return of form is 10th November.

Demands to remove bus lanes will simply be ignored by TFL but it's my experience that TFL will take notice of any other reasonable suggestions.

So - does anyone have any comments?

[Juwlz]

Thanks for this opportunity nasaroc.

I have just discovered I have rather a lot to say!

It would be great (for me!) if the 363 and the 63 merged to do the whole route all the time, rather than the current situation where the N63 magically takes on the properties of both at night time. If I'm not being clear, what I mean is - it would be good if the 63 did the whole route from Kings Cross up to Crystal Palace all day (and night) rather than terminating at Honor Oak. I daresay there's some well thought out reason why it doesn't currently do this? I find the 63 is a very good service - very frequent.

What would be really good would be a bus from Herne Hill station to Sydenham Hill and Penge for all those people (like me) who get to Herne hill and have to wait half and hour for the next train (due to personal incompetence or the rubbishness of first capital connect). Then I wouldnt have to get on the number 3 which doesn't really go where I want anyway.

Speaking of which - the number 3 bus. I have caught this bus from Herne Hill to Crystal Palace parade a couple of times, and both times it has been packed to the rafters. I really felt sorry for the mothers with pushchairs. In fact it was so packed I couldn't bear it anymore and had to get off. There is also a problem with the single decker 201. Similarly packed.


Also - on a separate note - could a school bus be provided for all the kids that have to get on the 63 in the mornings!? At certain times there are enough kids on there to fill a whole school bus. It seems unfair on them and unfair on everyone else that its so crowded. No wonder parents are forced to drive their kids to school.

In fact - the introduction of free school buses on all the routes I've mentioned would probably sort out a lot of the overcrowding. Could we ask Ken Livingston and TFL to spend some of the Congestion Charging money on dedicated school buses - for each and every school . It would sort out the problem of parents driving their kids to school and be much nicer for the kids themselves. It would be less crowded for people travelling to work in the mornings. I can't think of a downside. I will be very happy to pay the congestion charge if it goes on free school buses. And I don't even have kids.

Then there would also be the option of making all the other buses free only for small children. This could sort out the problem that someone else mentioned of 'troublesome youths' travelling around on the normal buses because they have free travel (not that I have personally seen any). I would personally be in favour of keeping all the buses free for young people.

Hope some of this makes sense.

[goonerchamp]

Juwlz,

The 63 / 363 was only one bus up until 2/3 years ago - maybe thats hot TFL can claim to be introducing new routes ??? - by splitting current ones in two !!

I work near Farringdon and sometimes do get the 63 home (as far as Peckham) then have to change to either a 197 or 363 - bl00dy nuisence if they don't run close by each other and your left with the joys of Peckham Rye in the rain for 20 minutes !!!!

I therefore after my mini rant doubt TFL would go back on what they have done to the 63 unfortunatly -

!!!!

[still_robbo]

This also ties in to the Kirkdale roadworks thread, but I thought I'd post here as it as most relevant.

I think the problem people have with the construction of bus lanes is that they further congest already crowded roads for car users. But if we are to have the smooth running public transport we so admire when we see it in Europe and elsewhere then we need to encourage people out of their cars and onto the buses running in the those very same nice new bus lanes.

Or more accurately to make it a bloody pain to use the car until the roads are freed up by more people using buses, tubes, trams and trains.

In short I think it's an issue of transition. Until people realise that they have to get out of their cars, they'll continue to moan about inappropriate bus lanes, poorly synchronised traffic lights and over zealous traffic wardens. But things cannot change overnight, much as we'd like them to.

Sure there are more deserving cases for a bus lane elsewhere other than Kirkdale and the pubic transport system is by no means perfect, but it's a damn sight better than elsewhere in the UK for the volume of users it carries. Get out of the car and use it, thereby paying for more and better buses, tubes and trains and in time we'll start to see the benefit.

[reasontobecheerful]

Good thread!
Try this...
Dear Mr TFL can you fix it for me to have a direct bus route into central London from the Lower Sydenham / Bell Green area.
Yours hopefully
reasontobecheerful
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[annabel mclaren]

Dedicated school buses are a brilliant idea - while there's much to criticise about the US, the yellow school bus is a winner! Not so long ago there was talk of introducing them in the UK - I wonder what happened? As others have said, they would mitigate the effects of the school run (thus cutting carbon emissions) and ease crowding for everyone else. If anyone from TfL is out there, perhaps they could tell us!

[Big Ben]

Still Robbo - 'pubic transport system' - Freudian slip perhaps?

[nork1]

I dunno - commuting on the 122 gan be pretty hairy at times.

[still_robbo]

tempted to edit it, but on reflection I think I'll leave it.

[castiron73]

Juwlz and Annabel
I think school buses could help a lot. My partner walks our young children because the buses are full of swearing teens (she has to explain too many new words) or held up in school traffic. If they were those yellow buses, I'm sure a lot of kids would want to use them, as anything American is automatically cool. If it's good enough for Bart Simpson...

Not sure it's what TfL have in mind with this consultation, though. Perhaps too many different councils and budgets woud be involved.

[Greg Whitehead]

In terms of the local buses I have often caught the 176 all the way home from Oxford Circus (takes anywhere from 40mins to 1hr) - very handy for picking things up from John Lewis and taking them conveniently home (that's if you don't lose the will to live as it crawls through 'beautiful' Walworth and it's bus stops every metre...) If we could have more 176's I'd take them to and from work every weekday (in the Winter of course, in the Summer air-conditioned trains are the only way to go)

The 202 when you're waiting for it at CP is a pain. Take Monday night for example, I had been in Vianen, NL on a business trip and came back into Victoria, the first train I saw went via CP but not to London Bridge and I just wanted to get home so jumped on it. Anyway...2 x 202's pulled into the Bus Station only to turn their lights off and put up their 'out of service' on and drive back down CP Parade. The next 202 was some 30 minutes away and it was really, really pouring with rain. I wasn't in a rush or the like but it was only roughly 7.30 in the evening. I've had this problem at many different times and on many different days with the 202.

[leaf]

hmmm,the 202,ive on several occasions been unceremoniously dumped at syd rd just before newlands park rd because...get this,the buses were running behind and needed to catch up with the timetable!

had to walk home in the dark[not that late,but still]only to see the 202 whizz up westwood hill and while i was walking up kirkdale coming back down,of course keeping to the timetable is obviously paramount,bus passengers arent that important are they?

[Greg Whitehead]

Agreed Leaf. Even the 176 isn't immune from half-way home deciding to terminate at Dulwich Library...very annoying.

All in all though we're quite well served with buses.

[castiron73]

Seeing as the subject of school buses kept coming up in various threads, I wrote to the Mayor's office to see whether it was something they had considered. Here's the reply

Thank you for your letter to the Mayor regarding school buses. Your comments have been forwarded to me for response.

Transport for London (TfL) makes substantial and specific provision for taking children to school and works closely with the boroughs and individual schools to identify school travel needs. TfL plans bus services so that there will be adequate capacity on each route for all passengers, and most school children travelling by bus in London use the network of standard routes.

Nearly 50% of children at secondary schools in London use public transport to get to school, 38% walk. For primary schools, 62% of children walk and 5% use public transport. Approximately 150,000 children use the TfL bus network each school day.

As part of a programme to understand if there are further cost effective ways to reduce the use of cars to take children to school, including further bus provision, walking or cycling measures, London Buses recently carried out a survey of parents who drive their children to school. The research showed that 72% of the primary school children who are driven live within two miles of their school. For secondary schools this falls to 53%.

Parents are interested in the concepts of “walking buses” and further bus provision, though the level of uptake is quite sensitive to the price charged (with interest increasing as the price of a potential fare reduces). London Buses is now following up this research with more detailed work on the costs and the practical issues associated with dedicated school buses.

As you are aware, since September 2005, all passengers under 16 are now able to travel for free across the Bus and Tram Network. As well as being of great benefit to low income families, this measure also encourages young people to use public transport, helping to continue London's move away from car journeys. It should also cut congestion, pollution and accidents by reducing the school run.

TfL has in the past been asked to consider the 'yellow school bus' concept (as is used in America), but do not believe that it is appropriate for London. The vehicles cost the same as ordinary buses but are less comfortable and inaccessible, excluding some children from using them. This directly contradicts all the Mayoral, Assembly and TfL policies of equality and accessibility, and would detract from the achievement of having made all buses accessible by the end of 2005.

Thank you once again for taking the time to write about this matter. Please feel free to contact me directly if I can be of any further help.

Kind regards

Hayley James
Customer Services

Currently free school buses have to be provided if you live more than two miles away from your nearest available school. [/quote]

[nasaroc]

Thanks for these comments - I'll pass them on to Transport for London

[chrisf]

Yeah man good thred.
I get a good view wen sitting on da upper deck at da front.
I prefer da 176 cos it gos past good places wit good views.

[Hombre Queso]

what gets my goat is people who use their mobile phone to listen to music out loud. I did come across a petition for a campaign that i wanted to share with you, music free buses:

http://www.hovis21.com/

it seems ridiculous to have to campaign for civil and considerate behaviour on public transport but i suppose that it what it has come to!

bus drivers seem to be very disconnected from what is going on on their buses too. they don't seem to care about what goes on upstairs (smoking, vandalism, eating of junk food and spreading it all over, intimidating behaviour...).

buses seem to be regular on my routes (176, 122, 185) but if they are an unpleasant experience then we will only ride them if we have no other option.

[lemonade]

Hello Hombre Queso
Yes you're quite right, people who have their mobile phones blasting out non-audible rubbish at full volume are normally youngish kids showing off their latest toys. You feel it's annoying, but they don't care because they want to annoy people...After all it doesn't sound good and it's usually in mono anyway. If I was to keep blowing a whistle out loudly I'm sure they'd not like it and would soon be cheesed off with me.
Bus drivers cannot get involved with passenger disputes as they are subject to violent attack - This day and age....How sad! Health and safety issues prevent the driver from challenging individuals, instead it is left to CCTV, a panic alarm and if a major incident a phonecall to police. Need I say, often by the time police are called (if ever) and intercept the bus, it is often far too late.
As for your link to the ever increasing carrier bags and other non-biodegradable plastics is too a serious subject. Many landfils getting full to capacity. The land is totally useless and will remain so for 100's of years. In fact it could even be 1000's!


I have just edited this in.
Sorry I seem to have hijacked this once interesting post and turned it into something completely different. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>.SO

[lemonade]

>>>....Do you have any views on local buses?

[KCS]

hmmm,the 202,ive on several occasions been unceremoniously dumped at syd rd just before newlands park rd because...get this,the buses were running behind and needed to catch up with the timetable!

had to walk home in the dark[not that late,but still]only to see the 202 whizz up westwood hill and while i was walking up kirkdale coming back down,of course keeping to the timetable is obviously paramount,bus passengers arent that important are they?

What about the passengers waiting at the palace for the 202 that's running late ?

Believe me Bus drivers hate it also.

Controllers try to keep buses on time.

Therefore blame TFL and their pressure of losing less mileage as losing mileage is a threat to the operating company they might lose the route.

It's a vicious circle that's never ending.