Summer in the Parks

[mummycat]

m

[stone-penge]

On a notice tucked away in one of the smaller noticeboards, this is displayed:

No Vehicles,
No Horses,
No Camping,
No Fireworks,
No Fires,
No Golf,
No Loud music,
No Urinating,
No Dog fouling
No Barbeques.

That puts the kibosh on my planned gypsy music festival featuring a traditional korean barbeque, crazy golf course and a Urophagia stall then...

[mummycat]

..

[bigbadwolf]

What damage would anyone be doing to either the park or local wildlife if they cleared up after themselves?

I've barbequed in both Crystal Palace Park and Wells Park with friends countless times during this summer. And many before in the past.

And on all occasions we've doused any remaining embers, disposed of the barbeque and cleared up after ourselves.

I'm sorry, but I see no reason why I should have to adhere to any petty legislation dictating whether or not I'm allowed to cook food on land my tax money goes towards maintaining.

[Bram]

C'mon, BBW - you can be more provocative than that - amuse us, please!

[bigbadwolf]

Well,

when I was a teenager me and some friends had a barbeque on a campsite in France. I was pretty pissed by the end of the afternoon, but instead of safely disposing of any of the harmful embers, I tipped the lot into a sandpit, and scooped a thin layer of sand over them to hide the searing hazard.

I'm fairly sure no-one (children) trod on the unintentional trap. But if they did, they would've been French. So it wouldn't have mattered.

Anyway...

... back to parks.

[Savvy]

I'd like to see a cordonned off area for dogs to run around off - leash. I wish they had to be leashed in the general area. Last summer we saw a woman at the top of the park with three children in tow and two pit bulls - one of which was hanging from a tree branch by its mouth. (One of the dogs, not one of the children). Great eh?

[bigbadwolf]

I'd like to see a cordonned off area for dogs to run around off - leash.

I can't see it being adopted, Savvy. Just too time consuming to oversee and enforce. But if it's any consolation, there's a short, rough-looking 'geezer' - who probably dwells in a council estate - that gets dragged all over the place by what looks like a half dog/half cow breed of Rottweiler on the terraces at Crystal Palace Park. You can tell he's not the one wearing the trousers by the way he digs his heels into the ground every time his hound advances.

Call me old fashioned; but there's nothing more undignified than being walked by ones beast.

[simon]

As a dog owner I would like to see that too Savvy. I was told by the park keeper recently that I was no longer allowed to excersise my dogs in the middle of the park. He said that PCSO's and dog wardens were now able to levy an on the spot fine if I was caught doing so. However, he added that were notices to that effect at each entrance of the park, but I haven't seen one yet.
I thought the east end of the park would be a good part of the park to fence off for dogs but I see it has now been designtated as a meadow.
I now only let my dogs off the lead in Cator Park and Long Meadow at Paxton Green.

[bensonby]

just to clarify:

You can't excercise dogs in an area where a Dog Control Order is in place: according the LBL website this includes the "central area" in Mayow Park. Link

Hwever, I believe that these are only enforcable if the area is clearly marked as such Link2

Either way the fine is not "on the spot" - you have recourse to a court if it is given out unfairly: no PCSO/PC/Warden worth their salt would just hand one out if there was no sign or if it wsa completely unreasonable (I'd like to think)

[bensonby]

I'd like to see a cordonned off area for dogs to run around off - leash.

I can't see it being adopted, Savvy. Just too time consuming to oversee and enforce.

There is such an area in the park by Monson Road in New Cross....so it can be, and has been, done by the council.

[bigbadwolf]

Yes, but that particular part of London is a high crime area that is tightly encircled by 3 or 4 Police stations. Bringing it under the immediate focus of at least 3 stations' local beats.

Whereas Mayow Park is patrolled by PCSO's based at a small station/outpost. Who have next to little power or authority. And they're hardly going to dispatch the cavalry from Lewisham every time someone lets their dog off the leash in the 'forbidden zone'.

So, it may work when the park or area of enforcement sits a stones throw from the local nick. But when you're 'off-road' ,so to speak, it becomes a less practical policy.

[bensonby]

Yes, but that particular part of London is a high crime area that is tightly encircled by 3 or 4 Police stations. Bringing it under the immediate focus of at least 3 stations' local beats.

Whereas Mayow Park is patrolled by PCSO's based at a small station/outpost. Who have next to little power or authority. And they're hardly going to dispatch the cavalry from Lewisham every time someone lets their dog off the leash in the 'forbidden zone'.

So, it may work when the park or area of enforcement sits a stones throw from the local nick. But when you're 'off-road' ,so to speak, it becomes a less practical policy.

that's rather factually incorrect for a few reasons:

Monson road has one police station near it - Deptford. Not three or four.

It's not generally something that is enforced by the police - it is enforced by local authority wardens (and PCSOs maybe). And if it were it would be an SNT matter generally: The SNTs are based at Sydenham nick, funnily enough there aren't any based at Deptford.

Even so closeness to a police station is largely irrelevant when it comes to a response time: the police aren't like the fire brigade, sitting inside their bases waiting for a call. If they aren't dealing with an incident then they'll be out of the police station on patrol. This sort of thing would rarely ever come to the notice of a response team anyway.

[bigbadwolf]

Monson road has one police station near it - Deptford. Not three or four.

Well, yes, perhaps. But the area still has a higher concentration of Police stations. Which increases the likely hood of bumping into a Constable, rather than a PCSO. Something the Police are well aware the locals - criminal or not - are aware of. Which coincides with my next point.

Even so closeness to a police station is largely irrelevant when it comes to a response time.

You're missing the point. I'm not suggesting the Police rush out everytime a report comes in of an unleashed dog in a zone that it should be leashed. What I'm trying to say - though I concede I may not have been adequately clear - is that the simple presence of the station on Amersham road in close proximity acts as a deterent because the locals will know there's a more likely chance of being caught out. Whereas if the station were further away, the risk is reduced.

That's why the scheme will be more effective than in Mayow Park. There's a greater presence of authority. Whether or not it's council wardens or PCSO's. Thus imposing the need to think twice upon people who may consider chancing their luck.

[bensonby]

The police station at Amersham Vale is further from that park next to Monson Road than Mayow park is from Sydenham Police Station.

Either way, police don't enforce these bylaws as a general rule......so I really don't see the connection.

[bigbadwolf]

Yes, but - as far as I'm aware - the station on Amersham road has a bigger complement of Police officers. Thus giving it greater resources and reach. Whereas - though correct me if I'm wrong - the station on Dartmouth road only has three Police officers permanently stationed there. With an attachment of PCSO's. Thus reducing its impact.

Either way, police don't enforce these bylaws as a general rule.

That may be, but the Police, no matter how thinly they're spread, are still a symbol of authority that people relate to with regards to when weighing up whether or not it's worth running the risk of acting outside the law. No matter how petty the infraction.

Like it or not, their presence, near or far, will dictate/demand more consideration from a potential offender than that of a council representitive or park warden.