VENNER ROAD 'CROFTON LODGE' DETACHED VILLA

MR G. · Post by **MR G.** » 23 Sep 2006 20:27

Does anybody know the history on 88 Venner Road which is the amazing looking detached gothic style building? I understand it is called Crofton Lodge and was built circa 1800 and had vast grounds but I can find nothing on the web. Please help!!

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 23 Sep 2006 21:13

That's got to be the ghost looking house that stands out from the rest? I remember walking down this road recently and seeing this house... amazing! I doubt if it were built as early as 1800 though?

SamC · Post by **SamC** » 23 Sep 2006 22:09

do you mind but that is my house you are talking about. i resent you saying my house looks haunted.

only kidding. it is not my house really. i know what you mean. it is a spooky place. i do not like going past it. there never seems to be any lights on from where i can see the building. shivvers run down my spine thinking about it. hhhuuuuuurrrr!!!!

Illuminance · Post by **Illuminance** » 24 Sep 2006 13:29

Creepy isn't? Looks like something from an 80's horror film.

If you look at Stanfords Map of London 1862 it's not there.

Judging by the architecture and elevation Crofton Lodge does look like it was the first property to be built along that part of Venner Road, sometime after 1862.
It is mentioned in the 1891 Census and is slap bang on the border.

Interestingly, Newlands Park was named Penge Lane and ran all the way to Penge High Street (then named Dulwich Road) via a level crossing at Penge East. There was a toll gate at the border of Sydenham and Penge. Think of that, having to pay to go to Penge. Or maybe to Sydenham?

Greg Whitehead · Post by **Greg Whitehead** » 24 Sep 2006 14:14

So, Kirkdale was also called Sydenham Hill in 1862? Interesting.

Re: that house on Venner Road. It could be a very beautiful home. I hope I'm not offending anyone but it looks a little...neglected currently. It is a wonderful structure - and that 'skylight'!

Steve Grindlay · Post by **Steve Grindlay** » 24 Sep 2006 22:20

Stanford’s 1862 map shows a large house adjacent to the railway line. That was Newlands. The Newlands estate extended in width from the railway line to Penge Lane (Newlands Park), and south as far as the railway line through Penge East station excluding, of course, the relatively small grounds of the other houses on Sydenham Road, which included Malvern House.

William Smith, the last owner of Newlands, died in 1877. On his death his executors sold the whole estate for development. By the time Stanford’s 1878 map was produced Venner Road and Tredown Road had been laid out and named and Byne Road and Wiverton Road laid out. The 1878 map shows just one house, on the border with Sydenham and Beckenham (the ancient parishes). That, of course, is Clifton Villa. So it is the first house on that development, and must have been built in 1877-1878. By 1880 there were still only six houses in Venner Road.

You can see the map here: http://tinyurl.com/e6xgj

Greg Whitehead · Post by **Greg Whitehead** » 25 Sep 2006 08:03

Unless my ability to read a map is woeful, Sydenham station platform ('London' side) originally went the other side of the bridge? Therefore, the entrance would have been where the new live/work units are?

Greg Whitehead · Post by **Greg Whitehead** » 25 Sep 2006 09:00

I see you're added some more pictures...

I had no idea that the London platfrom was on the other side of the bridge.

Steve, you allow me to see Sydenham through different eyes with every post you make. For that, I thank you.

(Greg the sycophant)

Steve Grindlay · Post by **Steve Grindlay** » 25 Sep 2006 09:05

Nothing wrong with your map-reading, Greg. There was a station there. It was demolished in 1982 when the platform was moved to its present position, on the other side of the bridge. I've put uploaded some pictures here:
http://tinyurl.com/euav2

Falkor · Post by **Falkor** » 25 Sep 2006 10:22

I've put uploaded some pictures here:
http://tinyurl.com/euav2

Wow, that's a good photo from the current Station platforms! Was this one ever published? I was the underbidder for the Station entrance photo, but it got published for all to see in the Joan Alcock book, although I've never seen the demolition photo either... Here's an ariel photo for greg:

Greg Whitehead · Post by **Greg Whitehead** » 25 Sep 2006 10:46

And just look at the entrance to Venner Road - those six storey houses!

Well done to the generation who pulled them down and replaced them with the 'inifinitely superior' 60's brown abominations that are there currently (no offence intended to the current residents of them).

Town planners from the 60's have ALOT to answer for, as have the residents who stood by and let it happen - you know who you are. It just winds me up when people of a certain age are constantly ramming the view of "x is long gone now I'm afraid" down our throats having stood idly by and allowed the bulldozers to do their worst.

leaf · Post by **leaf** » 25 Sep 2006 11:19

hi greg

the thing is with those fine houses and others like them that were knocked down in the late 60s early 70s,they were more than likely rented out as seperate dwellings by landlords who were often more interested in making a fast buck than keeping their rental properties in good order...clean,dry and safe,i lived in a property like those on venner rd when i was first born,it was condemned by the london fire brigade a few weeks after my birth as a death trap!

i know it is easy to see the potential of those buildings looking back,but i bet the residents were glad of clean dry homes once they were moved out for them to be demolished,lots of homes like those were taken over by the council under the compulsory purchase orders of the late 60s[my first home included]and yes some were demolished.

i know what you mean about the replacement houses on venner rd though!

but i have been inside one of them and they are quite nice in a sort of scandinavian pine panel way!

Greg Whitehead · Post by **Greg Whitehead** » 25 Sep 2006 11:29

Hi leaf,

I agree with you that a certain amount would have fallen into some state of disrepair. That said, it's hardly comaprable to the slum clearance in Glasgow looking at the picture, is it?

I daresay a large proportion of the properties (not specific to Venner Road) were perfectly serviceable however in the cold light of day a block of flats gives a higher headcount per square metre than those 'high ceilinged, large roomed, beautiful and well built Victorian old things' - such a shame. And yes we suffered alot less than certain parts of London and the U.K. but I think my point is valid.

leaf · Post by **leaf** » 25 Sep 2006 11:35

i wont mention the huge houses on silverdale that were demolished in the same fashion then!

*have to say that they too were damp pits that were awful to live in too,i had a neighbour that lived in rooms in one of them.

would love to continue this discussion but have to go out now!

leaf

Greg Whitehead · Post by **Greg Whitehead** » 25 Sep 2006 11:45

Yeah, we're not finished - hurry back!

I'm not disagreeing with you Leaf. Doubtless there would've been plenty that were draughty and over-crowded with no indoor 'ablutions' and a fair percentage that suffered from damp, etc. I have no issue with razing those to the ground (whilst I don't agree with what they were replaced with I can see that this was a brave new dawn of communal housing and living in the sky).

A fair number that were perfectly habitable would have been razed to the ground by developers and/or the council - I believe Pat or Annabel mentioned that the council had tried to do the same with the Thorpes. THAT is what I object to.

BTW are you saying the Silverdale houses were in a good or bad state of repair? Demolished because they needed to be or just because 'they' could?

Are you free to come on the walk? It'd be great to meet you.

Jules · Post by **Jules** » 25 Sep 2006 15:50

Greg,

I live in one of those brown houses in Venner Road and I do take offence to your coments.
As for no.88. what a grand house that is. have often wondered how much they'd sell it for.

Greg Whitehead · Post by **Greg Whitehead** » 25 Sep 2006 16:40

88 could be a real beauty I agree Jules. You mean there are people in there? SamC seemed to suggest it was unoccupied.

leaf · Post by **leaf** » 25 Sep 2006 16:56

BTW are you saying the Silverdale houses were in a good or bad state of repair? Demolished because they needed to be or just because 'they' could?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i think some might have been in a reasonable state of repair,but a lot werent,obviously the knock em down pile em high idea contributed largely.

Juwlz · Post by **Juwlz** » 25 Sep 2006 22:05

Can someone tell me how you insert an image into a post. Thanks.

Greg Whitehead · Post by **Greg Whitehead** » 26 Sep 2006 07:53

I'm not sure that you can easily Julwz. Falkor seems to know who to do it but if you sign-up with Flickr, upload the image there you can cut and paste the link from Flickr and we can access it that way.

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VENNER ROAD 'CROFTON LODGE' DETACHED VILLA

VENNER ROAD 'CROFTON LODGE' DETACHED VILLA

88 venner road